A Changing Of The Guard In The WCC: Zags Look For Revenge Against St. Mary's
by Max Mandel on Feb 9, 2012 8:30 AM PST
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PrintEver since the loss to BYU, I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out just exactly what to make of this Gonzaga team. In the past month, the Zags have been blown out of the gym in road games against both St. Mary's and BYU, arguably the two biggest challengers in the WCC. Despite having two upperclassmen starting in the paint, it's been two freshman guards that have been the most consistent and productive players on the team. The small forward position continues to be a revolving door with no player able to seize the position.
On the other hand, St. Mary's enters this game playing the best basketball on the West Coast. For some odd reason, many Gonzaga fans seem to have little faith in the quality of this Gaels team. People point out that St. Mary's played a weak non-conference schedule,which I tend to disagree with since Baylor, Northern Iowa and Denver University are all good teams. Instead, I believe that the reason people disregard this Gaels group is because there is no dominant personality and presence like Omar Samhan. Instead, this St. Mary's team has a bunch of really solid players that have come together to form a versatile and impressive team that has great guard play and a solid post rotation.
So what should we make of the Zags chances against the Gaels on Thursday night? I don't think the talent gap is nearly as big as the performance of the two teams might indicate. Frankly, the tale of the two seasons comes down to the fact that Randy Bennett and his staff have done a much better job at identifying the players that should be in the rotation and then maximizing their potential. On the other hand, the Gonzaga coaching staff has struggled to establish any consistency and hasn't been willing to work through the mistakes of either Guy Landry-Edi or The Hoff to ensure that one of the two can develop into a rotation player. The issue with not settling down and giving either guy the bulk of the minutes is that it has prevented a starting five from developing a comfort level and a natural feel for playing with each other. How can Kevin Pangos know where The Hoff likes to catch the ball coming off the curl screen if he is only playing two or three minutes per game with him?
Unfortunately for Gonzaga, the Zags lack the length in the paint that could really give St. Mary's trouble. One area that Mark Few and his staff just don't seem to recruit is the athletic big that jumps like a pogo stick. The last guy that the staff really brought in with those intangibles was Kuso, who consistently made an impact in the paint. It's why the writers on this site pined for the staff to pursue Skylar Spencer. While Rob is big, he isn't mobile and doesn't do a great job bothering shots in the paint. Elias has great athleticism, but he isn't a shot-blocker and is actually better guarding a guy off the dribble then he is matching up in the paint. This is the reason that guys like Noah Harstock and Brad Waldow have had career games against the Zags this season.
In order for GU to stick in the race for a WCC title, it comes down to execution and, for lack of a better word, swagger. At no point this season have I seen a Gonzaga team step on the court and look like it was truly going to go out and dominate. In fact, I really haven't seen that from a Gonzaga team since the 08/09 season when guys like Pargo and Heytvelt were still on campus. There were glimpses of it at the end of last season when Marquise Carter was playing out of his mind, but with his struggles this season, that edge has disappeared. Gonzaga has been spoiled with players like Ronny Turiaf, Dan Dickau, Jeremy Pargo and Adam Morrison, who all stepped foot on the court believing they were going to get a win and playing with an attitude that reflected that confidence. This is a talented Gonzaga team, but that leadership and attitude is missing, and until it is found, this team won't reach its potential.
I'm going to leave the predictions up to you guys who choose to comment on this article, because more than anything, I want to see a Gonzaga team that believes it will win. I don't want to see a team that thinks it can win, but instead a team that knows it is talented and expects to dominate every time it steps on the court.
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good article...
Should be a dog fight tonight… I see it coming down to the last 3 or 4 possessions to decide the winner. Whichever team plays best in last 3 minutes wins.
by rpballer25 on Feb 9, 2012 9:29 AM PST via mobile reply actions
SMC
has some talented kids but more importantly, they execute very well. If GU wants to win, they are going to have to disrupt SMC flow and try to impose their style of play on them. If not then this SMC team comes in and does what it does best, move the ball, shoot well, rebound and play hard for 40 minutes….and they walk out with the win.
Winning takes talent, to repeat takes character. - the Wizard of Westwood
with that said...
I think GU does what it has done well in the past…turn it on and figure it out near the end of conf play….I think they eek this one out…..I hope. :)
Winning takes talent, to repeat takes character. - the Wizard of Westwood
I agree, more or less
They are not playing up to their potential. It seems that they lack motivation. As I said before, they should have thoroughly demolished Pepperdine instead of blowing a huge lead late in the second half.
What will it take to win? Firstly they have to take better care of the ball. Turn overs kill our rhythm. The next thing is if the perimeter shots aren’t falling then work the ball closer to the basket. Lastly, they need to set double pics to free Bell and Pangos who are both very good slashers to the basket. They need much more motion on the offense.
If there is moderate enthusiasm, then they will loose big. They need to be pumped, but from the way they have played lately, well, frankly, I don’t see a win tonight. SMC wins by 15 or more.
as an SMC fan...
I’m worried about tonight’s game. I think zags will win. Even though they haven’t played well, I see them bouncing back tonight. As much as I hate to say it, I think Zags win by 6.
by rpballer25 on Feb 9, 2012 10:10 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
very charitable
If the Zags don’t do something drastic about the turnovers and floor spacing, they lose by 20.
They have been stinkin it up for a while now. Don’t know what the problem is but it is contagious and systemic.
mjc
Sacre Was Clearly Hurt Last Game
The Zags have depth at every position except center. When Sacre was unable to play at St Mary’s, it affected every other role on the team. we’ve seen that happen in some other games. Like it or not as Sacre Goes, so goes the Zags…..but then that makes everything perfectly clear Robert- – kick @ss!
unfortunately for the Zags success the rest of the year, I think you are absolutely correct...
This team is only as good as Sacre allows it to be.
Few vs. Bennett
Max got it right: “Frankly, the tale of the two seasons comes down to the fact that Randy Bennett and his staff have done a much better job at identifying the players that should be in the rotation and then maximizing their potential.” For example, regardless of whether Rob had a poor first game, I think he will not get full minutes nor be the focus of the Zags offense tonight. Few and his staff have finally figured out that despite a great body and decent attitude, Sacre just doesn’t have the right stuff. if anything, I wish Few would have figured this out earlier – even last year. Let’s run the offense through Harris and Dower tonight.
Run it through Sacre, too :)
Sacre’s stats were very good, and his overall play was excellent. I stand corrected. Way to go Rob and the rest.
Consistent Guards?
I agree that Bell has been consistent this year, but pangos has not. I think if he is more consistent, than we are better in all aspects. A recent article mentioned this about pangos, “Pangos just went through a five-game stretch playing 36 minutes a night with more turnovers than assists and shooting only .333”. I don’t think that is consistent as much as freshmen. They both still miss too many open bigs, especially on the good ole pick and roll. I am excited about them and their potential. We get to see glimpses of it, but they are still freshmen. They will get better even in time (which is really exciting),
Pound it Inside
The first few set possessions for Gu, I would like to see them give to Harris/Sacre down low. If SMC defense collapses and the 3 is open, take it. But I would like to see us set the tone early in the game with some physical post play. As Max said, this team needs some ‘swagger.’ On defense challenge shots aggressively at the rim, it will either be a block or a hard, clean foul.
The team that wins the ‘physical’ aspect of this game will win.
Zags in a close one: 82-77
I look for pangos to have a good game
12pts, 8 assists, 2 TO will get the job done. I like gary to bounce back with some good d on delle.
zags 74-69
I nervous about this game like arlo guthrie was “comin in to los angeleez”!
"Average is as Average does"
by NCWzagfan on Feb 9, 2012 11:31 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Thumbs up!
5 things will make the difference in our WIN tonight.
1. Sacre’s thumb is now healed and will not have a negative impact on his game.
2. Waldow has been game planned and will not fly under the radar this time.
3. Pangos is smoother at home where his three will fall.
4. Home cookin- nobody beats us at home. It has to be worth 6 points.
5. Our back is against the wall. We will play like our lives depend on a win, and it does.
Zags pull the upset and win 77-73.
Final 4 or Bust!!~
Elias
I think Elias has to shoulder a lot of the blame for the lack of swagger. He just takes too many plays off between spectacular rebounds and spectacular dunks. His stock has gone down plenty because of his indifference on the defensive end. In the first St Mary’s game, he yielded the lane on practically every possession. Apart from that his inordinate number of unforced turnovers domino into more of the same for his teammates. I’ve always considered Elias a “presence” but not necessarily a heady team presence. But alas it’s never too late to make amends, starting tonight.
I love you Max
You know exactly how to break down any game and matchup perfectly and identify where our strengths and weaknesses lie. I agree with you wholeheartedly and I wanted to touch on a few points.
This St. Marys team is good, no doubt about it, probably the best team on the West Coast. They are absolutely deserving of their number 13 ranking. They have experience, but more importantly, continuity from playing with along side one another for the last few years. And unfortunately, we do not have that. With all of the transfers we have had over the last 3 years, its understandable that our continuity is lacking. Meech, Poling, Gibbs, Bol Kong, Manny; all transferred, so it will take a little while to build that chemistry with our young guns.
Next, our Swagger has definitely been an issue. The only two guys that I believe have any swagger are Pangos and Bell, but its more of a humble swagger. They have confidence in themselves, but are not that outwardly emotional leader. The Seattle Times wrote a great article about these guys and I will attach the link at the bottom. But guys like Sacre and Harris and Carter need to step their games up. In my opinion they have shown very little confidence or leadership all season. They are the upperclassman and must lead by example.
If we are to have any success tonight we will need to A.) Feed off of the crowd, B.) Cut down on turnovers, and C.) match their 3 point shooting. SMC averages 5 more points a game than us this season, but have shown the ability to score in the 90’s. They will go on several scoring sprees and we need to be able to match it.
I see a very close (and very stressful) WIN for the Zags tonight.
Pangos
the thing with him is that he doesn’t really do a good job of making shots easier for his teammates. He’s not a good penetrator, or passer off the dribble. He makes safe conservative passes, but at the moment I think he lacks the quickness and strength to be a real good point guard. I think he’s more of a shooting guard
not a good passer off the dribble?
what?
when it comes to penetrate and dish…you have to be running an offense that has this as a main component…GU does not. They run the hard screen flex entry or that lame version of the UCLA weave….neither of which is going to allow for good penetration and kick…especially when these Mark Few teams have TERRIBLE spacing….that is consistently something that is not taught well by this coaching staff year in and year out……my point…don’t put that on Pangos…that kid has as much or more passing ability and feel for the game then any GU PG in the last 10 years…..(maybe Stepp excluded)
Winning takes talent, to repeat takes character. - the Wizard of Westwood
by mattydog73 on Feb 9, 2012 3:27 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
"hard screen flex entry"
Isn’t a hard screen required in order for that offense to work? Setting a screen on this team is like an after thought most of the time.
If I saw a hard screen I might think we were watching imposters!
Off to the game…… Lets DO DIS THANG!!!!!!!
Final 4 or Bust!!~
I agree
that he doesn’t make many bad decisions with the ball. He does a good job of protecting the ball. I just don’t see him getting easy looks for his teammates, which is ultimately the job of a point guard. This also includes running a zone offense.
If you watch Carter with the ball in his hands and Pangos with the ball in his hands, you really notice the difference. Carter is great at penetrating and passing off the dribble, he has great vision. Pangos is much more mechanical in his passes. Much more likely to just swing the ball around the perimeter or make a basic pass into the post.
Link
Here is that link about Bell and Pangos in the Seattle Times….
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/collegesports/2017460142_zags09.html
If you find a cool link it can be thrown up on fanshots...
Oh wait, I already threw that link up there, yesterday.
Final 4 or Bust!!~
St. Mary's
is going to win. Our rotation is a complete mess right now. It seems as if Few is frustrated with everybody. We don’t get any momentum going on offense, we’re constantly shuffling players in and out hoping for the magic fit. When teams switch from man to zone we don’t seem to score for at least 5 minutes. At the moment I don’t think we have the horses on offense to hang with St. Mary’s. We’re really going to need Hoff or Edi to step up big tonight.
Totally Agreed
I know myself and everyone else here are die-hard zag fans for life, but I don’t see any legitimate reason that would lead anyone to think our Zags will win tonight. Can’t hold a solid game against THE WAVES (!?), got embarrassed by BYU and SMC this season already… these aren’t anomalies this season, it has become the expectation. Sacre must just be having a really hard time psychologically which is understandable given his life circumstances, but he is useless, and without that threat in the paint, our guards just aren’t good enough (yet) to take control of a game against a good team. Hope I’m wrong, but my faith is dwindling this year
"I don't know who's going to come in here and win. I don't care who they are." - IUPUI coach on playing in The Kennel
Swagger
Us fans have lost it too. Look at that faith-in-the-zags-o-meter on the front page. It would be in a downward spiral if it wasn’t showing faith over time in a linear left to right fashion.
C’mon guys. We have 4 losses, none to bad teams, we’re going to make the dance for the 14th straight time.
I just printed out my Go Zags sign and slapped it on the window (unfortunately 9 stories up it’s impossible to read and nobody in Chicago knows the color scheme so it will probably go unnoticed).
Max nailed it!
I said in November 3-5 losses in league and this is one of them I had picked. I sure hope we win! My first reason for such a Negative Nelly prediction back in November is EXACTLY what Max has put so plainly in his post…………..you can’t expect this team to be as good as they could be right now, eliminating the 3 spot on the team for over 2/3’s of the season with no consistency anywhere! Hoping for the best………….
It's gonna come down to defense
Zags have to commit to D to keep this close, the offense just doesn’t have the scoring ability to keep up. I think the first two minutes are going to tell us if we have a chance.
Going with the Zags by 6, partly because we’re at home, mostly cause I hate SMC.
It's Dower Power Hour!
Everyone keeps talking about Pangos, Bell, Sacre and Harris. I think the guy we need to have a huge game is Sam. If he comes off the bench and is a scoring machine, which we all know he can be, it frees everyone up. It gives Sacre the confidence to be aggressive defensively because the team will be okay if he has to sit. It opens up the perimeter. And when they double down on him just outside the paint, it opens the lanes. Plus, if he drops a couple threes, SMC will be scrambling to cover that as well.
by SoldierofZagistan on Feb 9, 2012 7:20 PM PST reply actions
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