Setting Up The Season: The Bigs
Gonzaga's success over the past decade has been largely due to incredible backcourts. Guys like Matt Santangelo, Blake Stepp, Dan Dickau, Jeremy Pargo, Derek Raivio, and so many other guards have carried the program to where it is today. This year, however, most believe that it will be the frontcourt that can take this program to that next level. While the frontcourt isn't without any question marks, I'm not sure if there are any serious weaknesses present. Mark Few has a sure fire WCC player of the year contender, a fifth year center, a smooth lefty who showed huge potential last year, a seven-footer with the mentality of a guard, and a freshman banger at his disposal. The front line is versatile, it is experienced, but the biggest question mark is whether or not they can make a big enough jump to take this program to new heights.
Before we get too in depth on any individual expectation, it is probably worth taking some time to address the group as a whole. In particular, who might not be a member of that group this year. If you have been around the blog this offseason, you have assuredly heard about the possibility of Kelly Olynyk redshirting. While we will likely know the answer to that question on Friday, it is worth noting that this rumor has legs. Personally, I think this is a superb move by the staff and is the main reason why we saw most of the 2012 recruiting come to a halt. What it means for this season is that Robert Sacre, Elias Harris, Sam Dower, and Ryan Spangler are going to be your rotating frontline. In my opinion, it is a very powerful group and they all have very distinct skill sets. We'll explore more after the jump...
There has been a lot of hype around the 2012 Gonzaga frontcourt. I would call myself more cautiously optimistic than anything else when discussing them. I say that because I still believe there is much to prove. This all starts with the senior center, Rob Sacre.
Many are expecting Rob to light the world on fire and contend for a number of individual honors. I believe that Rob is a tremendous player and asset to this team, but I am nowhere near the camp that believes Rob is that guy. Ideally, Gonzaga needs Rob Sacre to be solid. That means he needs to stay on the court, be efficient when he decides to attack the basket, and take care of the ball. My dream line for Rob would be 4-6 from the floor, 4-6 from the line, and pull in 8-10 rebounds all while staying on the floor early in the game with consistency. With four members of the frontline this year, it will be pretty important that each member is cautious with how many fouls they have and as the only true center, it is paramount that Rob stay in good position. I imagine most will view my hopes for Rob as shortsighted but my views are the way they are for two reasons. First, I just think Rob has a ceiling that he is very close to hitting and that now he needs to refine some of the things he does. Secondly, I think the other members of the frontline are going to shoulder more of the 'explosion' factor.
The offensive expectations I have for the Elias Harris & Sam Dower combination are quite immense. As we have witnessed in the past, both men have the ability to go off for 20+ points at any given time. Last year was rough for Elias Harris. He was plagued by various injuries throughout the season and just never quite seemed to be himself. This year, everything has gone right by all reports. He has been with the team all summer, has trimmed down, and is running at full speed. As we saw during his freshman season and in spurts as a sophomore, a healthy Elias is extremely hard to stop. He's one of the stronger players in the country when he attacks the rim and if he isn't scoring, he is usually drawing fouls. Sam Dower, on the other hand, plays with a bit more finesse than the hard-charging Harris. Sam is a skilled lefty that really made most fans to backflips a season ago with some of his offensive outbursts. The key for Sam will be what he does when people are noticing him in gameplans. What does he do when they take away his left. When that happened last year, he was usually pulled but this year, he is going to have to be more consistent when things are going against his strengths.
The other area where both Sam and Elias must improve is their defense. Elias was exposed a number of times last season when he was forced to defend on the perimeter. Whether you attribute that to injury or something else, it must be worked on. As I said, Elias is an incredibly strong player but where he lacks is lateral quickness and using high basketball IQ to defend as opposed to his outstanding athleticism. On the other hand, Sam Dower is still working on remaining tough in the paint. Thankfully he has a very good defensive teacher in Rob Sacre. Rob has really perfected the art of the big man popping out to the perimeter and he has made huge strides as an interior defender.
The last member is Ryan Spangler. Spangler is a tremendous complement to the current veteran stable. The staff is counting on Spangler to bolster this team's presence on the boards. While the team rebounding has never been that bad, no one would call Rob Sacre and Elias Harris prolific rebounders. If I had to describe my hope for Spangler it would be someone who incites chaos on the court. By all accounts, it sounds like he is a guy that is just going to piss opponents off on the court. He will do a lot of the little things teams need to win games. Getting big rebounds, clearing out the lane, and providing a spark off the bench is what I expect from Ryan. He likely won't have huge outputs offensively but Ryan is a player that I can't to see this season.
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Olynik Redshirt?
Why are some people so happy about this?
Would you have been happy three years ago if someone told you that Kelly Olynik would not be good enough as a Junior to warrant 15 minutes a game off the bench? I personally think he is just not that good of a player. He is vey tall and he could be a solid option. I really doubt that he blows up over a redshirt year. Another Zag who has been overwhelmed by hype?
As for Elias, I really hope he has developed some more moves. His dribble, dribble, lower the head and plow into his defender is not effective.
Love Sam.
Sacre is the reason Kelly isn't playing
Olynik pretty much has to play 5 on defense . . . and he’s not as good as Rob defensively. After Sacre graduates, KO’s opportunities expand in a big way.
mjc
by quidveritas on Nov 9, 2011 12:17 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
this is the same KO?
who has shown he is capable of putting up numbers on NBA caliber opposition. Remember the 19pts, 12 rbds versus Argentina this summer in the FIBA Americas championships?
I often wonder if this is just another case of a rigid Few not knowing what to do with a very talented player that doesn’t seem to fit his system. Kelly would have been better off transfering to a program that knew how to better utilize his strengths.
I don't think anyone questions KO's offensive game
His playing time has been limited because of his defensive abilities.
From an offensive standpoint, we would do well to see him on the floor often. But there are two ends to the floor.
mjc
Actually...I question his offensive game.
He’s not strong on the boards, he’s a center with the remnant skills of a guard who’s grown out of his position. He gets it done from time to time, and I might be a purist, but I’m not sure I want my center shooting threes (and that’s alot of what he does). He’s a hodge podge of things that other players all do better than he does.
Zagnificent - GU Class of 2010
I disagree on most counts
On a per minute basis, he was the best rebounder last year.
He had the second highest FG%(57.4%) of players playing over 10 minutes.
Second highest 3pt FG%(44.4%), he only made 12, which is noted.
Granted, he’s not a true center. But i don’t think he has to be. His defense is suspect as he is slow, but i think that could be worked on. Rob is an excellent perimeter defender and he’s a 7 footer.
I still think he deserves a spot on the roster.
I don't think those are numbers he can consistently post...
If he becomes our starting “center,” he’s not going to keep that 57% FG stat. His defense is suspect, he’s rather slow, and not nearly strong enough to play the position, fight for rebounds, or defend an opposing center. I still think he can be of use and deserves a spot on the roster, but calling him a center or legitimate starter at the position is not realistic at this point (unless it’s our last option). I respect what he brings to the table but believe he, and the team, would best be served by a red-shirt season.
Zagnificent - GU Class of 2010
Your take on Sacre is right on the mark, IMO
Rob’s never been a great rebounder nor a really effective low post scorer. I can’t figure out why so many people assume he will be both now.
In conclusion, realistic expectations are good for us all.
I used to write a Gonzaga basketball blog you probably never read. Now, I write tweets that you'll probably hate.
http://twitter.com/larevblog
http://larevblog.wordpress.com/
Where is he effective at scoring then?
12.5 pts/gm (second highest on team) @ 49% FG%, he must be scoring effectively somewhere and i don’t see him make jump shots very often.
49% from the floor for a guy who plays two feet from the basket is not good
And he averaged four FT a game last year. Good for him for getting to the line, but four free throws a game is a lot better when attached to 12-15 points from the floor rather than eight.
I used to write a Gonzaga basketball blog you probably never read. Now, I write tweets that you'll probably hate.
http://twitter.com/larevblog
http://larevblog.wordpress.com/
Obviously
But that’s a silly comparison.
I used to write a Gonzaga basketball blog you probably never read. Now, I write tweets that you'll probably hate.
http://twitter.com/larevblog
http://larevblog.wordpress.com/
by larevblog on Nov 10, 2011 10:25 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
All i'm saying is the grass is always greener
I think we have a solid big man. Some people, like you, are just negative nancies.
Rob has taken a big leap every single year he's been at GU
and I hope this year he shores up his low-post scoring. I think his average rebounding is due to a lack of leaping ability and there’s not much you can do about that (and he does contribute a lot to the team rebounding by blocking out the opposing team’s biggest/best rebounder). But his shot is something he can improve and I hope he has. His % from teh line is already so good, if he upped his % from the floor 8-10% this season, which I think is doable, it’d make a big difference.
Sacre's role
is as an anchor, in my opinion. When he’s in the game, teams have to adjust. While he may not be a prolific scorer or rebounder, he does have the potential to change games in a big way.
This season, he (hopefully) won’t have to score for the team to win.
by CLT_ZagsFan on Nov 10, 2011 12:57 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks!
Good analysis, albeit probably overly optimistic as to Dower. On the other hand, I expect more from Sacre.
I think Olynik would be very smart to redshirt. He had moments last year when his talent came out in a big way, and then other times he looked throoughly overmatched. Another year of seasoning, and there’s an excellent chance of him having two very productive subsequent seasons. If he doesn’t redshirt, he’ll be fighting for a few minutes this year, and he’ll only have one season left to make his mark.
Excellent write up Zach!
I must be in the minority then, because I think Sacre getting anywhere from “4-6 from the floor, 4-6 from the line, and pull in 8-10 rebounds” would be fantastic. I do feel he could do a little more, but there will not be the need because we have so many other weapons.
Unless there is some kind of official announcement, we will not neccessarily know for sure if KO is redshirting on Friday because if he does not play in that EWU game, they could say it is still because of the concussion he suffered recently. Leaving us not in any 100% certainty.
Now that teams know about our secret weapon, Sam Dower, if they game plan and take away his left, he could have a slump. Hopefully, the coaches have worked on his repertoire.
I look for Harris to have a spectacular year, especially since he is healthy, slimmed down and in great shape {IF he plays the 4 and not experimenting w/ the 3}. Yes, the 3 periodically based on matchups and foul trouble would be ok.
The wILDcArD is of course Spangler. Can’t wait to see what the #1 player from the State of Oklahoma can add, and how his 29.8 points and 17.4 rebounds at Bridge Creek transfer to D1.
Friday can’t get here soon enough!!~
Final 4 or Bust!!~
Sacre...
…what is this ceiling comprised of Zach?
My hope is that he can continue the improvement he made from his Soph to Junior year…better FT%, more FT attempts, improvement in his pt/pg and consistent in his blocks/pg…and then of course the thing we all want to see him do better…REBOUND on both ends of the floor. He mostly sucks in this area because he does nothing to get positon and he still has not read the memo that he is 7ft tall…come to think of it…maybe part of that ceiling is his lack of leaping ability.
other thoughts…
I agree with your insights on the other players…and I too really look fwd to the “x factor” Spangler can bring to the games….
If you don't like my fire then don't come around...
I agree
Barring injuries, Kelly should redshirt because he will struggle for playing time against Spangler who is a more predictable scoring/ rebounding threat. Having said that, if, heaven forbid, Sacre is injured, Kelly has the athletic smarts to post up and his offensive game is more creative than Sacre’s.
As the season progresses, if Kelly does not redshirt, his playing time diminishes, assuming Spangler stays healthy. That’s the conundrum in the front court.
In the back court, another odd man out situation is shaping up regarding diminished playing time for Marquise Carter, who might not make a very effective three. Draino is a better shot and based on scant evidence against Carroll Who?, a far better passer. Those nifty assists, filled me with the belief that he is much more than just a shooter, as Jeremy Pargo commented in an interview.
Draino
While I think he would have been a welcome addition last season, I don’t see him forgoing a chance to rs and have 4 solid years in order to get scarce minutes off the bench.
if Kelly RS...
it will be because our 7 ft center will be graduating and he will be our new 7 ft “Center” thus the reason GU stopped recruiting bigs for the 2012 recruiting period. Pretty sure this is what Zach was getting at in his article as well.
To understand it you have to look down the road at 2012-13 season….It could be Olynk 7ft center with 2 years exp / Dower C/PF with 2 years exp / Spangler with one and maybe an Elias Harris Senior with 3 years of exp….that is almost as good a front court as we will have this year…it makes sense even if you lose some with Kelly down low, you gain it back with his ability to force their center to step out and guard him…add to that the additional experience of Dower, Spangler and maybe Harris…you have a very good outlook for the 2012-13 season…..
If you don't like my fire then don't come around...
Except . . . . .
Despite what you may have read, we did NOT stop recrutiing big men in June. We had at least 2 visit in October (Reyes was one of them) and we offered. We also offered Skylar Spencer. Both players went elsewhere.
Also, KO is not redshirting because of anyone but KO. He is simply not good enough to earn minutes or make a meaningful contribution this year. If he was, he would not be redshirting. Spin it anyway you want, but he has been a MAJOR disappointment.
Spangler predictable? He has not played a D-1 game yet.
Who was the other October big man to visit?
The Slipper Still Fits - SB Nation's home for the Gonzaga Bulldogs!
huh?
I never said anything about June…where do you get that?
and I am pretty sure that Spencer committed to SDSU 9-4-2011…and we were not on his final list in Aug…
Spangler predictable? He has not played a D-1 game yet. again…huh? what are you talking about?
Also, KO is not redshirting because of anyone but KO. He is simply not good enough to earn minutes or make a meaningful contribution this year. If he was, he would not be redshirting. Spin it anyway you want, but he has been a MAJOR disappointment.
first off, I don’t spin. Secondly IMO you are pulling the MAJOR disappointment out of your arse. And lastly he shot 57% from the field (2nd best on the team) / 44% from the three (only one better was Hoff) He is a guard in a 7ft body with a coach who is not know for player developement. He could do very well given a year to bulk up…and yes it will be up to him and there has been plenty of time to have Spangler on campus to see how D1 ready he is and if RS’ing Kelly would be a viable option for all parties involved.
If you don't like my fire then don't come around...
Yes, a MAJOR disappointment.
And I did not pull that our of my arse, as you say. There is a myth about KO; he is 7’0" with guard skills. FALSE.
How many “guards” average less than ONE assiste per game over their career (0.8)? How many guards average less than ONE HALF OF ONE steal per gamer over their career (0.4)?
So far in 2 years, he has averaged less than 13 minutes per game. He has averaged 4.8 ppg. As for a shooter, he made 12 3 pointers all year. He made a TOTAL of FOUR (4) against WCC opponents.
Now he being encouraged to redshirt because the coaches know he will barely play. That is a MAJOR disappointment in my book.
there are some major flaws in your "argument"
however… I doubt it would do any good to point them out to you…so I won’t waste my time. let’s just “agree to disagree” as it were.
If you don't like my fire then don't come around...
It's not an argument.
I said he is a disappointment. I backed it up with what he has actually done ON THE COURT. I didn’t just repeat the mantra that others have repeated. Say after me: Kelly is a “matchup nightmare”. Kelly is a 7 footer with guard skills. Kelly is great, he just hasn’t “grown into his body”. Those are platitudes, not opinions.
I beleive he is a disappointment. I did not pull it out of my “arse”. I expected Kelly to be an All WCC level player by his junior year, but he has done very little.
KO
if he doesn’t rs, he will be in direct competition with Spangler, who from the look of things is pretty solid.
I do agree that his potential redshirting has to do with a need to improve tremendously, but I wouldn’t say that he is a major disappointment.
May have been September. Spencer
Some are saying we stopped recruiting big men in June. FALSE.
I don't think your information is correct
Spencer told Greg Hicks that his final four schools were SDSU, UW, WSU, and Nevada in August. He never visited.
I have it from a very good authority that Gonzaga cooled all all big men following the July recruiting period except for one: Przemek Karnowski. Lloyd was abroad visiting Karnowski a few times this offseason as he is still deciding whether or not he wants to come to the states for college.
The staff wanted to close with Demarquise Johnson and Karnowski. With Johnson going to WSU, they are exploring other options which is why Darrious Curry could be an option. Chris Reyes was seen by Ray Giacoletti at some random AAU tournament and he wanted to bring him up for a visit. He was never offered despite the reports. His visit to Spokane (which I still haven’t been able to confirm really happened) was basically one where the staff had to be absolutely blown away to pursue him further.
We obviously agree to disagree as you have your information and I have mine but I am 99.9% confident that the staff put most of their eggs in the Demarquise Johnson and Przemek Karnowski basket. It remains to be seen what actually becomes of the 2012 class but this is my understanding of where it is right now.
The Slipper Still Fits - SB Nation's home for the Gonzaga Bulldogs!
Sorry, Reyes was offered.
I know his family.
Like I said, we agree to disagree
I don’t believe he ever received a written, binding offer.
The Slipper Still Fits - SB Nation's home for the Gonzaga Bulldogs!
Also,
There is a reply button at the bottom of every comment. If you wish to reply to a specific comment, please ‘reply’ to it. It gets confusing when people don’t do this. Thanks.
The Slipper Still Fits - SB Nation's home for the Gonzaga Bulldogs!
by Zach Bell on Nov 9, 2011 4:37 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
spangler's predictability
An assistant coach says Spangler never takes a play off. If he’s not boarding, he’s scoring or setting up a teammate. He’s been a sensational and inspirational practice player. Methinks a lot of that translates to game play. We shall see, very soon. He seems to be a more talented version of Jon Brockman, from all I can make out.
"many are expecting lights out from rob"
if you are alluding to people expecting a 30 point, 20 rebound per game breakout season, then I don’t know what you are referring to.
If you mean that people expect him to once again improve noticeably, perhaps improve his hands a bit more, become a more efficient post passer, quicker decisions, and improve his already capable team and individual defense…then, yeah, i expect “light out”.
He may up his rebounds to a consistent 8-9 range, but I really would be surprised if he scores more than 15 per game… to many other strong scorers, with Harris probably scoring more than him, and maybe even Sam…GOOD PROBLEM TO HAVE
I also disagree that Rob is really close to his full potential
The numbers may not reflect it, but he can be much more effective and efficient, and I think we will see it.
Rob isn't
the kind of guy who can dominate a game. He can’t really go on the runs that Dower and Harris go on. But I’ll be satisfied with 12 points 7 boards and 2 blocked shots a game.
So basicly what he did last year...
in my industry we call that “flat growth” and it isn’t tolerated. I do hope he can do a little better on the rebounds, specifically the offensive end…
If you don't like my fire then don't come around...
summer scrimmage
I saw him play 5 scimmage games and he could be the leading scorer if the team needs it. He has increased his shooting percentage from all areas of the floor. But he is the consumate team player and I don’t think you will see big numbers from him unless we need it.
KO Grew Taller
It seemed to me that grew an inch or more from 09-10 season to 10-11 season and I wondered if he had trouble adjusting. His ball handling got loose and he had an element of clumsiness that was not there the year before.
Maybe he just needed another year to adjust or maybe he is now the “new normal”
Same story last year
and didn’t live up to the hype. Hopefully another year of maturation plus Spangler will change things. I feel Harris should average a double double…considering some of the games he had in the past.
The fact that Kelly Olynik is tall is something that needs to be used to the advantage of the team. If a person is very tall in basketball then they need to be in a place where they can score the most points and use that height to an advantage.
Wait a minute
How does your link to sexy Halloween costumes have anything to do with KO? He’s far too classy for any of those getups.
If I didn’t know any better, I’d suspect that you are a spammer. Then again, I can’t argue with the fact that “If a person is very tall in basketball then they need to be in a place where they can score the most points”.
by CLT_ZagsFan on Nov 10, 2011 8:08 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
you mean pull off her clothes? lol
Halloween is over and here we have Hanna joining TSSFs TODAY and tryna sell her wares in here….good grief.
What a first post though, huh?
Final 4 or Bust!!~
You may be on to something...
The fact that Kelly Olynik (sic) is tall is something that needs to be used to the advantage of the sexy Goldilocks costume. If a person is very tall in sexy costume wearing then they need to be in a place where they can attract the most attention to their sexiness.
It does look like spam
but if you check out the profile activity, it’s pretty lazy spamming isn’t it?
Welcome to the Sound Pound...
Maybe
it’s more of a shotgun approach, and “Hannah” is hitting random message boards. Either way, the grammar leads me to believe the poster is foreign.
I just hope Hannah doesn’t find out that she is the heir to some vast fortune that requires our SS numbers.
by CLT_ZagsFan on Nov 11, 2011 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
Robert
Ok, I’m totally on the Sacre bandwagon (if you want to call it that). I see him making a huge difference this year.
My prediction:
-Average a double double (Maybe the biggest stretch of my predictions; scoring should be a given but the rebounds might be a stretch)
-Make every single center he defends cry just a little (after the game or before bed counts too). I can really see him frustrating the hell out of anyone on our schedule.
-Fire up this team. I’ve read a couple quotes from Few about how this team has chemistry. That’s what’s going to get us going in the tournament. Sacre seems to be the type of guy to take a technical, get in somebody’s face, and help out his own team mates. He’s a 5th year senior with a ton of heart with some key newcomers. His leadership is going to be key.
-Keep that free-throw percentage high. That might have been one of my favorite things about him last year.
-Grow some hair back. Being bald may be fun, but it does look a dorky. Mohawk anybody?
-Doing the “little things that don’t show up on the stat sheet” with charges, changing shots, filling up space in the lane, bruising people down low, etc.
Throw all that together with a fair amount of blocks and I think you’ve got the perfect year from Sacre. He doesn’t need to score a ton, but if he’s a consistent option that takes pressure off of Carter and Elias (my prediction for are two highest scorers) , plays defense and fires up this team then he’s going to go down as having a great year. I don’t think this is out of reach and I’m guessing most people who are psyched about Sacre this year have similar expectations.
Sacre's hook
was pretty nasty last season. If he keeps working on it, watch out.
by CLT_ZagsFan on Nov 11, 2011 11:09 AM PST up reply actions
Wow...
I missed all the foreworks and am just now reading all the comments. Now I know what Zach was talking about when sometimes he doesn’t even want to bother coming in and reading the posts. I am at times also guilty of partaking in such trifling, so no, I have not been above such pettiness. My apoligies.
Perhaps it is merely PRE-SEASON jitters? The first game of a much awaited season is apon us. We all need a common apponent to take our pregame jitters out on. We can get after it tommorow vs EWU.
This season is going to be remarkable. Will I be able to sleep tonight? Probably not…too excited. It seems like 10 years has gone by since the past season ended and I am ready for some ZAG Basketball!
I don’t know if we are going to be a Final 4 team, or if our WCC Conf Title streak will come to an end. One thing I do know for certain is that we are going to find out….and the train starts rollin tommorow.
GOOOOOOOOOOO ZAGS!!~
Final 4 or Bust!!~
Can we just delete all these comments...call it a mulligan thread, and start anew?
Zagnificent - GU Class of 2010
Just hope it isn't a preview of game threads this season...
yikes.
The Slipper Still Fits - SB Nation's home for the Gonzaga Bulldogs!
Alcohol is allowed on game threads...
So, we better have extra security in the room, lol.
Final 4 or Bust!!~
hmm
I was always under the impression that not only was alcohol allowed on game threads, but was encouraged…
Contract Year
I think many people are missing the boat here on Robert. Dad is a former NFL player. He’s going to get the coaching on how professional sports goes. Robert has the frame, IQ, skills and athleticism to make it in the NBA. Has everyone already forgotten that the year he medical red-shirted he was being predicted as a late first round-early second round draft pick?!
This is a contract year.
Robert is going to make opponents fear the paint. They get in there and they will be putting blood on the floor as Robert Sacrefices (sic[k])them on the boards and at the rim. He’ll be stuffing balls down people’s throats.
Forgive the reference here, because I don’t want to mention he-who-shall-not-named on this blog because we shall mention it nOmar (sic), but Sacre is going to put up numbers like that fat guy for the Gaels, Sandham (sic).
We’ve always been guard oriented in the past, now that we are going to be looking inside a lot, Rob will have a breakout year.
by SoldierofZagistan on Nov 11, 2011 8:36 AM PST reply actions
How dare you trivialize sacrifice!
I think Sacre will have a marked improvement over last year, but not other-worldly.

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