Gonzaga dominates Notre Dame as true tests lie ahead
by Zach Bell on Nov 30, 2011 10:56 PM PST
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PrintAs Max alluded to in his preview, tonight was the game many Gonzaga fans were looking to as the start of a very important stretch of games. The goal of these games was to finally learn something about this team. After the past two hours, I think the only thing I learned was that Notre Dame is quite atrocious. The Zags led nearly wire-to-wire tonight and wound up defeating the Irish by a score of 73-53. Four Bulldogs were in double figures tonight including Robert Sacre, Elias Harris, Kevin Pangos, and David Stockton.
For me, the stars of the night for the Zags were David Stockton and Elias Harris. In an otherwise sloppy game, David Stockton provided a great spark off the bench and had one of his more efficient games as a Zag. The reserve point guard scored 15 points on 5-6 from the floor and had three rebounds and three assists. He did exactly what he needed to; took shots when open and hit them. Overall, a very solid and encouraging effort from Stockton.
Elias Harris was a beast on the glass tonight. I don't recall ever being so impressed with Harris' effort on the glass. It is clear that he is not only healthy but working hard and being pushed in practice. He is still struggling a bit to find consistency offensively but I can't help but be encouraged by what he has done in other facets of the game.
While it is hard to not be enthusiastic about a 20-point win over a Big East foe, there are still a number of lingering doubts in my mind about this team. Most notably, the early season play of Marquise Carter and Sam Dower. I'm one of the biggest Marquise Carter fans. When he is playing well, he is about as smooth as it gets and we saw that last year. This year has been rough for Carter and tonight was another example. In 32 minutes, Carter was 2-5 from the floor with a couple rebounds, assists, and turnovers. It was a pedestrian effort from a guy that I had big hopes for. With a huge December approaching, this team is going to struggle mightily if Carter can't regain his form from last season. In Dower's case, he's still just struggling with his confidence offensively. Teams know he is excellent with his left and are taking that away. Hopefully, he can provide some quality minutes in big games in the near future to gain some confidence.
Saturday against Illinois will be quite a test. While the jury is still out on them as well, it will be a road game in a hostile environment against a Big 10 foe. This will be the first time the young Bulldog freshmen get a taste of a true division one road game. This is why it is so crucial for vets like Carter and Dower to step up and do it quickly or else Saturday could really be an eye-opener.
As for me, 5-0 is a great place to be. I just can't wait to see this team face some serious adversity. We will know much more then.
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Two things i would like to see from Dower
Try…please, to limit stupid fouls.
Pass it off when it’s not there, he tends to think he has to score every time he touches the ball. I think his best game is a 8-10ft jumper, little pick-n-pop action.
As far as Marquise, i felt very similar last year to how i feel now, and eventually he made me shut up. So i shall shut up in advance.
by berkie on Nov 30, 2011 11:02 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
How long you been watching college basketball?
Learning to play D-1 defense is the hardest thing for a big man to do and is almost the last thing the big guy masters. Sacre makes it look easy this year. For my money he just might be the best defensive 5 the Zags have ever put on the floor.
That wasn’t always the case. Rob would be the first one to tell you so.
I also think reputation has a bit to do with how the game is called where the big guys are concerned. Freshmen and backups get no respect from the officials what-so-ever.
I cannot think of any big guy that played for the Zags that didn’t have all kinds of foul trouble as an underclassman.
mjc
Agree
You are right about big men and learning D1 defence, with that said this is Sam’s 3rd year in college, hope to see him pick it up throughout the season.
You can do a lot in practice
but nothing replaces minutes on the floor in a competitive game.
I think Sam is very focused on his immediate responsibilities and is not seeing the big picture on the defensive end of the floor. No question he has plenty of room for improvement.
mjc
Irrelevant
If you don’t know what you are looking at, you certainly cannot appreciate what is out there to be seen. I feel sorry for you.
That said, we can have this discussion next year.
— “don’t it always seem to go, you don’t know what you got till it’s gone”
mjc
i think it is a valid question.
I think Sacre is a great defensive player and uses his size very well.
I agree with you that his fundementals are there, however i also agree that it is much easier to do what youre suppose to do against the competition he has seen. Illinois will be a big test for the big man.
by DanielwMathews on Dec 1, 2011 8:05 PM PST up reply actions
The best thing I've seen from this team is a consistant defensive effort.
I also have to applaud Few’s rotation. Guys seem to know their role and the bench guys are keeping leads when they’re on the floor.
I was at the Illinois game last year and man do I want payback on Saturday. Defense will be key to that.
GO ZAGS!
by DaveValleDrinkNight on Nov 30, 2011 11:46 PM PST reply actions
I'm not going to bitch too much about a 20 point win over a middle of the road Big East opponent...
…But we should have won by at least 30. We had so many chances in the first half to bury Notre Dame but we let them hang around until finally putting them down for good late in the 2nd.
I loved what Stockton was able to do. Mike Hart was actually efficient in his 18 minutes on the floor. Pangos played great D and hit a couple nice shots at the end. Harris was an absolute beast on the boards and showed flashes of excellence offensively. Sacre and Carter were both pretty average today compared to what we expect from them. Dower hit one or two nice shots but what awful otherwise. GBJ played 18 minutes tonight but all I remember is his nice finish at the basket between 2 ND defenders.
Basically…we played well, the game was never really in doubt which is always nice to say, but there is still definite room for improvement. GO ZAGS!
ESPN's title for our victory is "Gonzaga uses 15 3-pointers to route ND"
hmmmmm that weird cause me and my buddy box score only remember 6 of 15…
by DanielwMathews on Nov 30, 2011 11:57 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
We have beaten WSU and Notre Dame, both teams that beat us last year..
So they aren’t the teams they were last year…for that matter, we didn’t have a full strength E last year..
I think we just assume, if we beat a team soundly, then they must not be THAT good,, LETS PICK UP THE SELF ESTEEM, LADIES!
by mattzag72 on Dec 1, 2011 12:31 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Excellent Defense
this season, individual defense and team defense; this game and the entire season
by rnpljnsn on Dec 1, 2011 12:35 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Gonzaga
will move intothe top ten with a road win over undefeated Illinois.
yes - Illinois away will be a big test
The Illini have had some pretty easy early season opponents, but they showed that they are for real against Maryland. They have a new point guard (Sam Maniscalco) who transferred in from Bradley. He dishes the ball around well and can hit the 3. He’ll be a real defensive test for the Zags young guards. If Pangos et al. can contain him, the Illini offense might sputter. Plus, the Illini have confidence against the Zags from last year’s Battle in Seattle. This is a must watch game.
Their sophomore center, Meyers Leonard?
looked pretty athletic, and chippy to boot.. 7’1", 245, could be an interesting matchup for Rob this year..
Agreed
Leonard will be the toughest opponent Rob has had to face this year I believe. Hopefully he can get points without having to go to the line 15 times.
Don't lose a beat
in terms of fluidity/chemistry with either pangos or Stockton on the floor as PG.
You can tell Junior is on the cusp of being a great player.
Pango does remindme more of Dickau than anyone.
Sacre & Harris will dominate the paint and the boards nearly every game; they just need to go up strong and stop trying to finesse a shot in or at teh very least shoot at the bottom of the rim. Elias has a solid jumper even if he can’t jump very high.
Hart, best sixth man that starts.
Carter & Dower can be dominate for 40 minutes when they play within their game.
Harris and Sacre....
have to get better at finishing a foot from the rim!!!
Impressed with Stockton progress over last year. 27 pts from the PG position is very good to see.
when DS and KP on the floor would rather see KP at the 2 instead of DS…but seems to be working ok…
Dower cannot get into flow, so he needs to just take the 10ft jumper…he can knock this down 50%. I for one will take it.
It is becoming clear that GBJ is going to suffer a bit under the elementary offense of MF. Just as all the other gifted athletes GU has had….Downs, Daye, Pargo, and now GBJ. Hope Few will run some plays just for him and let him go…would love to see that for Harris as well.
I would encourage all who did DVR this game to go back and watch KP without the ball. He moves SO well w/o the ball. Special player.
If you don't like my fire then don't come around...
I was reading the comments here as I watched the re-play early this morning,
and I read this comment simultaneously with a series in which both Harris and Sacre missed put-backs. Coincidence?
I do like Sacre’s left hand baby hook, though.
GBJ suffer
I did not think that GB suffered that much. In this game DS came out hot and therefore played more than normal. These were minutes that GB would have normally played. But remember they are a team and are playing to win. I also thought that GB played a very solid good game. He worked harder on the defensive end and made things happen.
Also Carter is making errors, but these are at least errors of trying to get our bigs more touches. As the year goes on I think that Carter and the bigs will get better communication and carter will work at not trying to do the “great” pass.
I disagree about Pangos at the 2
I love his court vision and he is the next great guard so I want to see him get as much experience as possible dishing dimes and getting a feel for the system. Some of his passes last night were unreal! I can’t wait to see him turn into a 15 point, 8 assist type of player who can go off on any given night for 30.
A couple of observations
Had to watch the game on netbook on espn3 so didn’t get to see much detail, but a couple of things that caught my eye:
Liked how E was working on both offense and defense. A little less driving into double coverage, looked like he took good shots (wish more would have dropped). Thought he drove well. On D, he seemed more in control (didn’t overplay as much) and great rebounding game.
WRT the 3-point defense, I didn’t notice a lot of difference between this game and some of the earlier ones. It still looked like we game up a fair share of open looks, just looked like ND could not convert. ND didn’t look like they were committed to trying to get open looks from 3 (not a lot of screens, etc) and they were cold. Wondered if anyone saw some change/improvement in the 3 point defense?
5-0 Baby!!!
That’s the most important stat!
Tell the truth, who among you thought the Zags would be 5-0 to start the season?
Is there anyone out there that thinks this team cannot stop the 3 point shot?
Are there any ND fans that aren’t just frustrated to death by the Zags D?
This was not the best game the Zags will play this year but it does demonstrate the grit and determination of the team. A great win!
mjc
There was a stretch when the Irish air-balled two threes in a row...
I nearly wet myself with glee.
Zagnificent - GU Class of 2010
I certainly have eaten my words about the type of start this team would get.
I didn’t think they’d be 5-0 (though I also didn’t think that ND would be this bad).
But I still don’t have confidence in our three point D. The Irish got plenty of open looks. They just missed. That isn’t because of our D. Its because they just missed.
Went to the game...
Wasn’t the prettiest game we will play all year, definately room for improvement.
Man we played awesome defense, and we are winning in a variety of ways this season…every game has a different flavor…
I mean c’mon Stocks led the Zags in scoring last night, who would have thought
I love the fact that we dont lose a beat when Pangos or Stocks rotate in for eachoter, both very cerebral players with great vision..
Now we need to go avenge our loss against Illinois…that would take care of 3 losses we had last year early (WSU,ND,IL).
JSH
Committment to Defense
This teams seems to have made a major commitment to defense and it is showing in how we have controlled games. We still go into ruts on offense but our defense keeps us at arms length until the offense gets going again. If they can continue to be committed on the defensive end and our offensive game continues to grow, this could be a special team. GBJ is a fantastic defensive player and the two point guards are pesky. Rob is Rob on the ‘D’ end. Even Elias is putting out maximum effort and is doing a better job guarding out on the perimeter. Team as a whole is closing out to shooters much better. If we can continue to defend our offense will come around and the sky’s the limit. Very excited for this team. Tuesday will give us a real good look at where we are and who we could be. Can’t wait!!!
Elias on the perimeter
I feel that in the last 2 season Elias would jump at every shot fake outside of 8 feet. He seems to be much more disciplined this year and stays on his feet, not allowing his man to dribble by him for an easy bucket.
Dower, and Carter will be fine...
I think with both of them it all goes to confidence. We all know that they both have the offensive prowess to score 12 pts and 12 boards a night. With Carter, he’s a good compliment to Stockton, Pangos, and Bell Jr. Remember this is his second year and last year Carter was just a role player since Steven Gray was Mr Everything from the perimeter, however this year his job is to help lead the young but talented freshman guards. I think Stockton, and Carter are a good ying and yang of one another. But the one great thing about this team which I have not seen since the Adam Morrison years is that on any given night we have 4 or 5 guys that can and are getting into double figures. If this balance offense continues and we continue to hunker down on our 3 pt defense…can u imagine what kind of force we will be this season…our achelles heel was guarding the three ALL SEASON last year…and we held Notre Dame to their lowest 3 pt shooting all season…..stop focusing on the negative guys….encourage our squad and let them know you are behind them and continue making the “Kennell” the most intimidating place for visiting teams! GO ZAGS!!!!
Boy, was I wrong.
Stock’s last minute prayer made it a 20 point win.
Carter is what he is. I think he is an average player who will eventually sit in favor of Bell.
And Bell will have to play well to keep Stockton off the court.
Harris has his explosiveness back, but he is so raw offensively. I can’t imagine he won’t be back as a Zag next year. Rob really came on in the second half.
What is wrong with Dower? Announcers said teams have figured out that he cannot use his right hand at all. Also, the short leash he apparently has now has made him nervous. That might explain the dumb fouls. I was really expecting him to dominate this year.
ND will finish dead last in the Big East. lllinois will be the real test to see where this Zag team is.
A little strong,,, what are there, 20 teams in Big East Basketball?
I agree that Illini are better, but throw a bone to Zags for beating Notre Dame. Notre Dame has veteran bigs, and talented young guards,,, I think at least 5-6 teams finish behind the Irish in the Big East.
Dower Hate Unwarranted
People keep wondering “what is wrong with Dower”.
But he hasn’t gotten the playing time this year to really make a judgement. Rob has done a better job staying out of foul trouble, and Harris is much healthier than last year. With those two playing well it is hard to see Dower getting 20 minutes a game, and without touches and minutes we won’t really be able to judge him.
It isn’t a bad thing, by all means it is the opposite, it just means next year is much more likely to be his break out season than this year.
If I remember right
Dower got most of his playing time last year due to Elias’ struggles at the 4 position. But now since Kelly is redshirting Dower has to play at the 5 which he is not as comfortable at.
I dunno about that
Seems to me, Dower played a lot of 5 last year and did quite well while playing there.
I will agree with you that playing more minutes certainly enhances the effectiveness of some players. Dower may be one of these. Time will tell.
mjc
mjc
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