Zags' Improve To 4-0 With Victory Over Western Michigan
by Max Mandel on Nov 26, 2011 7:37 PM PST
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In the final tuneup before a very appealing stretch of six games, Gonzaga cruised to a 78-58 victory over Western Michigan. It certainly wasn't a perfect performance from the Zags, but the team did a good job of putting away an inferior opponent when it had the chance.
This game was never really in question, as Gonzaga used its size and athleticism advantage to dominate nearly every facet of the matchup. Marquise Carter dished out a team-high four assists, while the team dished out 18 overall. Gonzaga committed only nine turnovers in the game, and forced the Broncos to turn the ball over 20 times. The Zags hit over 50% of their shots, while Western Michigan converted only 41.7% of its attempts. If you look at pretty much any statistical category, it was a clear advantage for Gonzaga. Here are some of the things I liked, and also didn't like, from the game:
Like: The play of the frontcourt rotation was excellent today. Robert Sacre showed some moves in the post that I didn't think he had and really put together one of the best offensive displays of his career. Although he struggled with foul trouble, Elias Harris was reliable as always and actually shot the ball very well from the perimeter. Perhaps most importantly, Sam Dower showed how important he can be off the bench, scoring 15 points and grabbing six boards.
Dislike: It's really important that Marquise Carter discovers the confidence that made him so vital last season. I never like to see a guard pass up an open look, and Carter was guilty of turning away numerous open looks from the perimeter. Carter is at his best when he is able to keep the defense honest from the perimeter, because it allows him to attack the rim off the dribble. The senior combo guard is capable of being a vital player for this team, and for Gonzaga to reach its full potential, he needs to be a reliable offensive threat while the freshman continue to develop.
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Wow
I really like watching the front court guys play. When Dower gets going we have 3 guys in the front court that can really play. I also really like watching GBJ play. He is a better defender than I thought he would be. And he seems to be getting more comfortable every game. I would like to see him help out a little more with rebounds, when we have a small lineup on the floor.
I really dislike how we do not have a true 3. I like MH but I don’t want to see him start anymore, and I don’t want to see him play more than about 10 or 12 mins a game. I would really like to see Hoff get more mins at the 3 to really see what he can do. This game would have been a really good game to see Hoff play 20mins in.
I was really impressed with Stockton tonight. I really think he can be a good back up point gaurd for this team.
Zag fan since 1992.
by Zagfan4ever on Nov 26, 2011 8:00 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Good overall Game..
I do disagree though that “Harris was reliable as always”…he still to me isn’t the same Harris we saw as a freshman…he attacked with intensity and was so quick up and down the floor…he is better than last year but I am stil waiting for his potential to come out in full force..he had some turnovers tonight, some bad forced shots..the only real positive I saw was that stretch of like 90 sec where he scored 2 3’s and had a steal and bucket…
I know E is being keyed on more, and I love his game, but we all know that E still has another level that he can achieve…atleast I think so.
The real test starts this week against ND and just gets tougher…we will see what this ZAG team is all about very soon!
JSH
my two or three cents
I think Carter’s time as a starter is numbered. I think before long we’ll see a breakout game by Spangler and he moves into the three. The guy can really shoot beyond the arc and that hasn’t been shown in game play—yet. Another guy that figures to lose playing time is Harris. He had that one magnificent swipe that he converted into a basket but he continues to take plays off and sometimes disappears. Both Edi and Spangler will be knocking on the door as the season progresses.
By February I think the starting five will consist of:
Pangos
Bell
Spangler
Edi
Sacre
That is, unless Harris and Carter bring it with more consistency.
by fungor on Nov 26, 2011 10:18 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Not a chance
IMO…
Harris will never be a backup at Gonzaga. If he is, Few should be fired. He’s struggling, but he still puts up double digits night in and night out because he’s the most talented guy on the floor. If it ever all comes together for him, he’ll be 20+ a night guy.
Carter, on the other hand, might get benched for the same reason I stated above. In a program at this level, talent plays. GBJ and Pangos are just more talented, so I could definitely see them starting with Carter and Stockton coming off the bench to give one of the most talented backup backcourts in basketball…
The beauty of this year is we can have these struggles and still beat teams by 20, because our backcourt is finally catching up to our frontcourt.
By Feb, starters should be:
Pangos
Bell
Edi
HARRIS
Sacre
Now that’s a tough lineup to guard!!
by trufflshuffl on Nov 26, 2011 10:39 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Spangler
The flavor of the month!
I got nuthing against Spangler. In time he will be a real force. But PLEASE!
He has a way to go on D, transition, and offense before he gets serious minutes. He is not going to play at the 3 — not this year and probably never. You don’t take a strong rebounder and move him away from the bucket. That makes no sense at all.
Get over it people. Carter and Hart are going to see serious minutes this year because they have earned them. Defensively, Carter might have played his best game as a Zag today. Hart had a nice game too. Just too bad this 3’s didn’t fall — they were in the rim when he did shoot and his shot selection was very nice.
Admit it all you Stockton haters. He outplayed Pangos today. A very nice game for Stocks.
Well, we should get a better feel for the team on the 30th. ND isn ’t the best team we will play this year but they do represent a step up in the level of competition.
Go Zags!
mjc
by quidveritas on Nov 26, 2011 10:56 PM PST up reply actions
Agree. Carter played a very good game defensively and did a super job driving the lanes. Also Stockton came in and did what he is suppose to do. Pangos had some “freshman” jitters and stock came in and played great. Spanglers job this year is to play 5 to 10 minutes and learn how to play at this level. Our other bigs will carry the load this year.
Mike Hart; view from the not-so-cheap seats
I was lucky enough to sit court-side at today’s game. It really gives you a different perspective than watching the game on TV (my norm) or from the second level at McCarthey (once or twice a year splurge thanks to Craigslist). I was really impressed and taken by the effort and play of Mike Hart. Even those knocking him on this site don’t question his enthusiasm and effort, but rarely does he get credit for doing those intangible, blue collar tasks that help the team win.
Today, he led the team in rebounding, played tough/aggressive defense, kept the ball alive for teammates to rebound, had no turnovers (that I remember anyway) and scored six points. The kid goes balls-out every second he is on the floor. Sure he isn’t the offensive threat MM is, but does he need to be? Dennis Rodman wasn’t an offensive threat, but he was a starter or key sub on 5 NBA championship teams and is in the hall of fame. No Mike Hart is not Dennis Rodman, but the effort is sure as hell there.
I know it may be hard for some of us in the blogosphere to swallow, but we actually may not more about basketball than the Gonzaga coaching staff. Hart’s playing time may be significantly cut when Edi suits-up, but I still expect to see him play significant minutes, bust his ass, and help the team win.
by agedude on Nov 26, 2011 11:12 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
You're right about Hart
Someone has to do the tough and even dirty work on defense, too. Hart is a handful for an opponent’s scorer. He sticks to him, moves his feet, and helps out when other players get by their defenders. I realize it is politically incorrect on this blog to say something positive about a working class player that makes everyone else better, and a coach that realizes the need for a team player to lead on the defensive side of the court, so I apologize for what I have just written.
Hart had a Pendo day
No need to get all huffy about what is or is not okay to say on the blog. Last I heard, most Zag fans love the “glue guys” like Pendergraft Calvary, and Knight. Hart hasn’t yet consistently proven himself capable of playing at the same level as those guys, though. On Saturday, he led the team in rebounds (including tied for the lead in offensive boards), while tossing in 2 assists, 1 steal, and 6 points — combining for a pretty sweet line. As i_am_a_ZAG said, he did this against Western Michigan, so while it’s a good start, it’s not quite “Mr. Zag” level. If he can keep it up against the tougher teams, though, we’ll be in pretty good shape.
Mike Hart
This may have been his best game as a Zag. That being said, it was against a bad team. I’ve been on the “why is Mike Hart starting?” train all year but I will gladly eat my words if he is able to give a performance like he did yesterday against a team like Notre Dame or Xavier.
Hart starts until another 3 man can produce more.
Stocks looked great and you can tell he is competing for the point guard spot, which is great for this team. Bell may start in the future but I like him coming off the bench for now. I think Carter looked pretty solid tonight, except his passing. He’ll start until Bell’s game gets so good that it demands more minutes. We’ll see if that happens this year. I expect the front court will be Guy, E, and Rob, with Sam being a super sub and Hart being a hustle guy that cones in and gives a spark in his 10-15 minutes a game. Spangler gets post minutes when we have foul trouble. MM gets time when we need some scoring and as a zone buster. That is the 9 man rotation I see. Sounds like a pretty solid 9-10 man rotation to me!!!!!
My impression of Carter was actually really positive today...
because it seemed to me that he played within himself and he attacked the basket extremely well which is something that we don’t have yet (Bell will get there). He also is arguably our best defender on the perimeter this year as he is leading the team in steal percentage by a large margin 6.7 to 2.3. His eFG% is low but that is due to a couple very bad offensive games (EWU and WSU) and has been steadily climbing. Surprisingly he does pretty well rebounding as well which to me means he should start at the 3 position.
Solid win over a scrappy team.
Nice to see Rob use the left hand in the paint.
Stockton managed the game well.
Pangos and Bell are getting better, we’ll see how they do in the next 4 or 5 games. That will be telling.
Here comes the serious schedule, GO ZAGS!
by DaveValleDrinkNight on Nov 27, 2011 3:59 AM PST reply actions
Solid win over a Crappy Team
I’ve actually been critical over the years of our bone-crushing pre-conference schedule. I’ve said that the travel and competition beats us down. This year is different for sure. It starts next week and even that is different with so many home games. IMO we haven’t played anybody. From my vantage point, I have no idea how good we are. EWU was our best opponent so far, by far.
Disagree with Max. Agree with many of the posts here. Carter is a non-factor, especially if he can’t hit an open J. Next week Carter will be defending players 3 inches taller and 25 pounds heavier. I think longterm he is a sub at the 2, maybe 1.
Not sure what is wrong with Harris? His jumper is a “throw”. Any shooters out there know what I mean. Max, did you see the bank shot he hit from 3? It’s time for Harris to establish his game. Junior year. One year has already been wasted. If he has no “face the basket game”, then that’s not where he should get the ball. We already have Hart to pop out and keep the ball rotating. Harris is a star. When he gets the ball, all hell needs to break loose. I think we should end the “Harris as a wing experiment” and post him low non-stop. Sacre is the better high post anyway. Harris acts like he doesn’t want the ball. He is just jogging out there. He should be sprinting to establish that position on the block or in the lane. Heck, he’s not even rebounding- got 2 yesterday. Listen to this- IMO Mike Hart is more of an impact player than Harris is right now.
MdZag right on again
We haven’t played anyone yet. The player rotation will likely get more strict when the competition gets better. Coaches still experimenting. Notice in the past two games with
about 7 minutes to go Stockton, Pangos and Bell are together. I suspect that will be the
three guards on the floor when we need to close out game. Carter really needs confidence. His outside shot (this year) is tentative and that accounts for his driving to the basket, sometimes in traffic when he shoud pass off. Carter has the ability, the question is when
will he break out? He misses opportunities to feed the post, Sacre and Harris and last night when he
did the defender knew in advance what his intention was. He needs to watch Stockton feed. Even Hart fed the post well last night. Harris doesn’t get enough touches in the lane or down low. When he gets the ball there I’m confident he’ll make something happen. Carter will contribute this year but Belll and Pangos will be bread and butter. Hart really brings it but if Edi is anything like they say Hart comes off the bench like last year. We shouldn’t be outrebounded by a West Mich team but they did have size. On the concerns re coaching: Do you think the increased intensity on defense this year is because each player decided on his own to make it his job? Suspect the coaches have required it.
We have to be happy with where we are now and improving. The depth will be important to wear down teams along with our muscle in the post.
Norman L. Gillette
Agreed...
The competition has been very light and is about to move up. I think the coaching staff knew they would be young at the back court, and the players would need time before ratcheting up the competition.
I think Pangos and Carter are where they should be right now. They are freshman adjusting to the next level and have made improvements every game. Stockton is playing well making good decisions and finding his shot. Rob is showing off some new moves in the post and getting to where he needs to be on offense and defense. Dower had a big confidence game against Western Michigan and looks like he has made progress. Hart is improving as well at the three. While Hart is never going to be an offense power house he is looking more comfortable and much less hesitant on the floor. Solid rebounding, good defense, decent shot selection. With Spangler, it is tough to tell because of the limited floor time. He made some mistakes against Western last night, such as gambling too much. I do like his aggressiveness, he just needs some experience to make it more effective.
Carter & Harris. I expected more at this point. Carter looks like he is afraid to make a mistake on the offensive side of the floor. Can I shoot, should I shoot? Too late. He is missing opportunities to get the ball down low or take an open shot. His defense lately is good. He is putting in a solid effort and it is showing. Harris just does not look interested and so he is not putting in the effort like we saw his freshman year where it seemed like every game the basket, the ball, and the other team had personally insulted his family and his manhood. He may be simply playing down to his competition because they do not deserve to bask in the glory that is his devastating throw down. In any event, Carter and Harris need to step up their game for this next section of the schedule.
Likes and dislikes
Likes:
Sacre showing some game from the floor and not just the free throw line.
Dower and the magic touch reappearing.
Stockton playing like a starter – he WAS player of the game.
Hart still hustling his ass off – the new Energizer bunny?
Bell gaining confidence.
The offense starting to gel.
18 assists – 11 steals – 1 block – only 9 turnovers.
All things to be really happy about.
Dislikes:
Carter struggling from the perimeter – has he lost his confidence to shoot?.
Harris struggling to get down the floor and to play well near the rim – are his injuries still nagging him?
Monninghoff being ineffective on offense – only stat for 7 min is 0-1 from 3pt line.
Being out-rebounded by a less physical team – they had too many second chance shots.
Putting up another HUGE block of zero field goal minutes – nearly 7 in the first half!
All things to be really concerned about.
This team looks better with every outing and I will keep rooting for continuing improvements. By the time league play starts in January, I predict we will be able to easily handle the WCC.
this team...
has got to improve their shooting percentage. They are missing way too many shots…namely MC…he is taking 7 shots a game…and hitting 32% from the 2 and 14% from the 3! he is down from 47% last year. Hart, is out there 20 mins a game and hitting 33% of his shots….between the two of them they are taking 10 shots a game and hitting three. Not good. Harris has to improve as well. His average has dropped and he is taking just over 10 shots a game. He has to get better at finishing if he is going to take so many shots a game.
If you don't like my fire then don't come around...
by mattydog73 on Nov 28, 2011 10:47 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
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