Open Thread: How will team chemistry be affected by departures?
by Zach Bell on Jul 21, 2010 7:23 AM PDT
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PrintI have been thinking a lot about next season over the past few days and one of the things I woke up thinking about this morning was Gonzaga's overall team chemistry for next season. Looking at this list of players that are no longer with the team, it is easy to see that we might see a very different team in 2010-11:
Matt Bouldin (Four years in the program)
Will Foster (Four)
Andy Poling (One-and-a-half...ish)
Grant Gibbs (Two)
GJ Vilarino (One)
Bol Kong (One)
Regardless of how many minutes each player has logged, there is no doubt that losing this many guys affects how a team will function on and off the court.
My question to all of you is A) How much of an effect do you think these losses will have and B) Who, in your mind, will step up and be this team's leader? Is it the most talented guy in Elias Harris, is it the most seasoned guy in Steven Gray or is it guys like Meech and Rob who seem to be the most vocal and energetic on the court.
The thread is completely open for discussion and I look forward to hearing some quality views as I think this could be a major issue to watch as we move towards the start of the 2010-11 season.
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Just my thoughts...
I hope team chemistry will be better than it would’ve been had 2 of the 3 (Gibbs, Vilarino, and Kong) stayed with the team. Less guys working for playing time should create a more cohesive unit on the floor.
We tend to agree alot.
A) I think removing the players who were not going to feel fulfilled with their roles on Few’s team will be a net gain for the team. Trading players with time in the system for a transfer and some freshmen is absolutely a risk to winning games. However, this post is about chemistry and how do unfufilled players affect a team’s chemistry. In my opinion, this is a net gain for the team’s chemistry.
B) I’m a die hard, but I just don’t see a ‘leader’ on this team. I see a bunch of college athletes that can pull together and possibly be a damn good team. Just not a single leader. Different situations will require different players to step up, with the lack of a primary leader on the court. I hope the guys are up to the task.
Related Topic:
**my dream: somehow we match up with UW in the tourney and show them what real fast-paced team basketball is about.
by GU.AmericasTeam on Jul 21, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Sure do!
This has to be one of the first times a GU team hasn’t had one single leader. This year’s team will have a leader by committee between Gray, Sacre, and Harris. Although, I have a feeling that Harris will take over the leadership role for one season, then bolt for the NBA, leaving next year’s team with a similar dilemma. Hopefully Gary Bell becomes the leader in two years.
Well ...
I agree with JTabs. I think the team chemistry will not be too affected by the losses. Obviously the loss of a Matt Bouldin is going to have an effect immediately in terms of who produces more but the overall chemistry should not be disrupted. The team had some many new faces last year that losing a few guys shouldn’t be too tough to overcome on that side. Fewer guys means a tighter rotation and people should know where and when their minutes com.
On the production side, I would expect Kelly Olynyk and Manny Arop to step up their games considerably (but I’m biased). Getting lost in the shuffle of a lot of players last year, the two of them should be more readily available options this season afte having a season under their belts. Hopefully Manny’s foot is ok.
Ray Bala
CANadian BasketBALL Report
on www.raptorhq.com
Leadership
You can go back 10-12 years without having a major problem with leadership. To me this is the first year in all that time it appears to be lacking. Not the talent, but the leadership! I expect Carter to be a leader by seasons end and “E” and Rob to initially take it on.
As far as the effect of losing players with time in the system and floor time vs. newbee’s, all you have to do is read Coach Fews remarks about new players and the struggles they have in the GU system. Many of you are debating who you prefer as players and who you didn’t like as players vs. continuity in the system, big difference from coaching standpoint! While a debate on talent level is always suspect as to who may be right or wrong, the debate of time in the system and understanding of positons, schemes, sets and overall play is not a debatable thing. That is why teams with kids having 3-4 years in the system are always playing well with a degree of lesser talent against the better teams. We lost 6 players in the system out of 13. Thats good? Maybe or maybe not. JMO.
well, sure, but
think about the way the minutes situation developed early last year. Off the top of my head, three players who were brand-new to the system (Harris, Olynyk, Arop) got significant minutes and flourished, while players who “understand the system” sat on the bench (Gibbs, Poling). Clearly talent trumped knowledge there, which makes me not too worried about some of those 1+ year players (Kong, GJ, Gibbs) in turn being replaced by Carter and Monninghoff. The “6 out of 13” stat comes across as slightly alarming perhaps, until you consider that all five starters, and 7 of the 9 players who we expect to see significant minutes from (going off the recent rotation post) have all spent at least a year in the system.
To me, the question of leadership boils down to this: who’s willing to take charge in crunch time? I have a decent degree of confidence in Harris and Gray to do just that.
another but?
Do you really believe any player, especially a red shirt understands the system as well as a 3-4 year player? How much time do you think they get in game situations in that redshirt year? You really think it’s that easy? Do you also understand injuries and how they impact players at D-1 level? Are you aware of the extent of injuries to GG from his Senior year through last year and the number of operations he’s had on his shooting wrist, shoulder and Knee, what do you think, could that have been part of his performance? How about Andy’s sickness? Did you watch him play from his Sophmore year inn HS through his sickness at GU? Got no arguments for GJ.
When so many of the hooper’s here were being critical of their lack of play as being, lesser than D-1 players as the reason, it just showed our ignorance and all of us who suggested that these kids were just poor recruits, need to get a life. Oh well, another rant.
KO flourished? Do you mean when he was the poorest perimeter shooter on the team or outside of Elias Harris, one of the poorest defensive position players on the team or maybe it was his fouling because of his lack of foot speed or maybe his knack for screwing up sets by always being in the wrong place,or maybe, just maybe, he DIDN’T KNOW the system? Talented………………yes indeed! Flourished…………………..ehhhhhhhhhhh? Thats why I said losing 6 players out of a system will be a problem, talented or not. Please, don’t take anyones opinions here, especially mine, go talk to a College Coach. Better yet, Just read Few’s remarks and view his comments from last year about his inexperienced team.
aside from the one(s) who graduated, of course (with Foster getting the bracketed s).
So there were injuries. Still, four of the six players we lost were freshmen or redshirt freshmen, so given that their roles will be filled by redshirt freshmen and sophomores, I don’t see any need for doomsday laments. I don’t really see how GG’s injuries or Andy Poling’s sickness is relevant — the (admittedly sad) bottom line is, they weren’t going to cut it on the squad.
So the reason why I lumped KO into the “flourishing” squad is that he was, for the most part of the season, the 6th man — which suggests the coaches had a degree of confidence in him that they didn’t have in the various “system” guys. I think you’d have a more difficult time complaining about the fact that freshmen Elias Harris and Manny Arop straight-up FLOURISHED, given that Harris was one of the top freshmen in college basketball, and Arop was one of the best rebounding and defending wingmen we’ve ever seen at GU.
And again, in terms of your “inexperienced team” shtick; let’s think about that for a minute:
2009 (beginning experience in ‘the system’)
Goodson -1 yr 2 yrs
Gray -
Bouldin — 3 yrs
Harris — 0 yrs
Sacre — 2 yrs
Olynyk — 0 yrs
Arop — 0 yrs
Kong — 0 yrs
Foster — 3 yrs
GJ/Gibbs — 0/1 yr
2010
Goodson — 2 yrs
Gray — 3 yrs
Arop — 1 yr
Harris — 1 yr
Sacre — 3 yrs
Olynyk — 1 yr
Dower — 1 yr
Carter — 0 yr
Monninghoff — 0 yr
Where is the crisis, exactly?
Steven's Team
I think Gray will step up now that Matt has graduated. It always seemed like he was waiting his turn and now it’s now or never. Harris’ intestity and Sacre’s sense of humor will compliment Gray’s low key leadership style for the younger guys. As for the new guys, we will have to wait and see if one or two have the trait and the will to step up and take it.
Steven
He never stepped up in HS or any year since. Why ask him to be that person if he’s more comfortable doing something else? Rob, E and Carter, thats the ticket! I would love to see Steven actually play up to his full potential in his last year but I’m not holding my breath.
Steven part 2
Mike – I really don’t see Sacre or Harris stepping into the leadership role. Rob is too light in personality and Ellias is too heavy – not being critical – love both those guys, and I don’t yet know Carter. Gray did show flashes of maturity last year but always played second to Matt and the year before all the attention was on Pargo, Heytfelt and Daye – I really believe he may take the next step now that no one is in front of him.
Just an observation
My wife and I saw Sacre, Gray and some other tall guys that looked like players but I could not tell….Anyway we were at a resturant and they came in and Sacre was very vocal and seemed like the leader…but as they stood right in front of our booth and tried to determin where they would sit…it was clear that it was up to Gray..he quietly told Sacre were they would be sitting…and he complied…
My point is…I think Gray leads quietly and will be the glue…I think that Sacre will be influenced by Gray and will be the vocal leader….
Also, I think Harris will be the emotional leader as well as scoring leader that the team will rally around….
my .02 worth.
by mattydog73 on Jul 21, 2010 10:40 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
Good Point
Last year it was Sacre that led the circle before games and was the outward motivator before games, but it was Bouldin that led warm-ups and was clearly the floor general. I think Gray will step into that role this year and Sacre will maintain his role.
Look for Harris to step up as well.
Excellent post!
This is great news. One of my biggest concerns has been whether or not Steven will step up next year. I can totally imagine Steven being a speak-softly-but-carry-a-big-stick kind of leader. Meanwhile, Rob and E can play the “big stick” on the court without having to worry about carrying the entire team on their backs. The process also eases Rob and (wishful thinking, I know) Elias into the leadership roles they’ll need to play next year.
I could see KO being an emotional leader as well. I see flashes of Pendo whenever I see him play. That kid hustles way more than he gets credit for. Anyway…
A) Bouldin = Gray (should be interesting to watch. Who knows what’ll happen.)
Foster = Dower (As much as I like Big Will, Dower is a better player, overall.)
Poling = Olynyk (Andy lost his spot to a freshman last year. Why expect any different this year?)
Gibbs (Bouldin Lite) + Vilarino (Meech Lite) = Carter (Neither played very well last year and Carter, at the
very least, brings a different style of play to the table. He also has more college PT than Grant and GJ
put together. I’d trade one battle-tested guard for two bench warmers any day.)
Kong = Manny? (Kong was a unique threat and he’ll be the hardest to replace. Hopefully a healthy Manny
and the net gain of Monninghoff/Keita/Hyland will make up for this setback.)
B) All in all, I think next year will be a good/great year. Judging from the above observation, the chemistry’s already there and, more importantly, the respect is in place. Steven finally seems comfortable in his leadership role and therefore next year’s success is just a matter of skill (which we have), heart (which we have), and endurance (cross your fingers).
by EvilUnderFoot on Jul 21, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
It's almost all positive
Let me preface this by saying that none of us are members of the program and as such are not privy to the locker-room chemistry.
In terms of on-the-floor chemistry, I am extremely happy with the transfers. With the exception of Bouldin and Kong, none of the players who transferred or graduated proved they would do anything but take up space/eat up a few minutes. GJ was solid, but not special. Foster sucked. Gibbs and Poling never played and likely wouldn’t have.
Given that Kong didn’t play that much last season, the only worry is that Bouldin’s departure needs to be filled. In my opinion, it has.
From where I’m sitting, the team is a lot better than it was last year, returning all but one of its core players and bringing in a ton of new talent with varying degrees of experience.
I agree that Gray will be the floor leader, with Sacre and Harris being the teams motor. I can’t wait.
Losses good for team chemistry
I sensed some negativity brewing and some of it had to do with playing time and lack of clear cut player leadership. With what we have left, I feel there will be a better understanding of who the leaders are, and more of a proper pecking order.
That being said, I feel it will be Steven Grays’s team, he will be the true leader, and Sacre will be the more vocal leader. Throw in a little Meetch and we will be just fine.
Perhaps this little shake up in player personnel will help the team in the long run. Change can be good.
Its gonna be gLoRiOUS!!~
Step up!
It’s a GU tradition that the following senior steps up. That senior is, of course, Steve Gray. Gray displayed flashes of leadership during the 2009-10 season when needed. Now it will not be displayed but expected. Relatively high BB IQ and has always moved well without the ball. Passing maybe the only slight ?.
Olynyk and Arop will fill in nicely but consistency will be the real factor. Both need more looks and aggressiveness. *side note-Olynyk will enable us to forget Daye
Sacre will be the largest enigma. His post moves are exceptional but inconsistent. And lungeing for the ball will always prompt a whistle.
Meech also falls into the inconsistent category. Needs to stay in the point guard role and focus on running the offense. And last, but not least, our newest superstar-Harris. He started to become the go to last year but he respected the seniors last year. Not going to jump on the bandwagon and say “Lottery” but we’ll see how it unfolds. Huge talent but Gray is the leader.The losses will not impact much but I really was looking forward to Kong’s arsenal. He really does have a nice shot (needs to heal that bad “kobe” jump).
Gibbs really impressed me last season and I hope he does well on next team.
Poling really is a D2 player (at my daughter’s school now).
The 2010-11 team will do just fine and find themselves in the top 25 again and it’s not far fetched to whisper “Elite Eight”
Forget Daye? Why?
I dig the post, and I agree with a lot of it, but I don’t know why we would want to forget Daye. He was a very good player that gave us a lot of needed victories. He was able to score and rebound and provided a crazy difficult matchup for other teams. Thats also just a side note…
I think this team can be pretty similar to the 2008-2009 team, a 4 seed/Sweet 16 run. If you go position for position I think this team has as nearly as much talent as that one, barring the point guard of course.
08-09 10-11
Pargo Goodson
Gray Gray
Bouldin Arop
Daye Harris
Heytvelt Sacre
The ‘08-’09 team was a lot deeper as they had a borderline NBA talent as the 6th man in Micah Downs. But Gray should be much improved over himself as a freshmen, I think Arop is very similar to Micah, I like Harris more as a 4 than Austin and I think Rob could be a much more rounded and dominant 5 than Josh ever was. I am excited for this team and I think the loss of the transfers will not affect this team negatively, as has been said I think it will help them(and Coach Few) because the rotation will be so tight.
Forget Daye
You absolutely right in Daye’s contribution to GU. I did not mean for that statement to sound as though we want to forget him. I meant that GU has what I believe a very similar player in Olynyk. Both have the same body and given the opportunities, Okynyk can display the same arsenal that Daye provided.
The only reason I will watch an NBA game is to catch The Pistons and see Daye get some minutes. (which should increase significantly )
Rest of the WCC?
Being an east coast dad of a GU junior,(yes we are driving from CT to Wake for the Jan 2 game) the one thing I really miss is new about the other WCC teams. LM and SM could be threats, but are inconsistant and with Omar gone, SM seems light. Any other challenges this season?
Gray will lead
I don’t think these loses will have much of an effect on Gonzaga’s program. The only difference i see is missing Bol’s shooting at times but that’s where Steven comes in. I think he has the leadership quality of the past GU players we all saw him step up two years at the battle in Seattle with 23 points when he was just a freshman. I think he will be a leader and a scorer and some people might say he struggled beyond the arc but i have a feeling he was carrying a lot on his shoulders and this year he will fit into that leader position with a lot more ease
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