How many NBA players does it take to win it all?
-bumped from fanposts. Great piece - Zach B
According to Gary Parrish (and history) you need at least three.
Here is my ranked breakdown of our current NBA Potential:
1. Harris - Our only lock as a future NBA 1st rounder. Needs to add 20-25 pounds. If he learns to shoot like Paul Pierce he will be a perenial all star.
2. Bouldin - Like Pargo last year, his play down the stretch will determine where he gets picked up, if at all. He probably has to take us to a final 4 to get drafted in the 1st round. The good news is, if he does take us to the promised land he will be in for a big payday.
3. Sacre - The hype on Sacre should build next season if he is able to play facing the basket, extend his consistent range a bit and put on 20-30 pounds. The sky is the limit here as Rob does have the size and athletic potential to be a 1st rounder.
4. Olynk - He hasn't done anything yet, but he is 6-11 and one ESPN announcer has already stated he thinks Olynk will play in the NBA. Pretty good compliment in limited minutes.
5. Manny (Manville than Anvil) Arop - I love this kid. He is the best player off our bench without a doubt. He is E. Harris lite out there snatching rebounds and playing huge for his size. Shooting is what it takes for a guard his size to get noticed by scouts. He seems to have the touch and the form to be a good shooter. If he wants to play in the NBA he will have to shoot really well and develop his guard skills (like a James Harden).
6. Steven Gray - I have him lower than Manny because he has less time. He needs to play like Ben Gordon from here on out. Unless he runs the point next year it will be almost impossible to make as a 6'4 shooting guard. You must be dominant to make up for a percieved lack of size at that position (think JJ Redick ect).
7. Meech - Nate Robinson is the model here. Nate Robinson could really shoot, drive and dish. Especially his mid-range jumper off the drive.
keep reading for a list of past NCAA Champions and their pro players...
Here is a Gary's List of NCAA Champs and the nba players those teams included:
2009: North Carolina
Ty Lawson, Wayne Ellington, Tyler Hansbrough, Danny Green, Deon Thompson, Ed Davis, Tyler Zeller
2008: Kansas
Mario Chalmers, Brandon Rush, Sasha Kaun, Darrell Arthur, Darnell Jackson, Cole Aldrich, Sherron Collins
2007: Florida
Al Horford, Joakim Noah, Corey Brewer, Taurean Green, Chris Richard, Marreese Speights
2006: Florida
Al Horford, Joakim Noah, Corey Brewer, Taurean Green, Chris Richard
2005: North Carolina
Marvin Williams, Raymond Felton, Rashad McCants, Sean May, David Noel, Reyshawn Terry
2004: Connecticut
Ben Gordon, Emeka Okafor, Charlie Villanueva, Josh Boone, Marcus Williams, Denham Brown, Hilton Armstrong
2003: Syracuse
Carmelo Anthony, Hakim Warrick
2002: Maryland
Juan Dixon, Lonny Baxter, Chris Wilcox, Steve Blake
2001: Duke
Jay Williams, Shane Battier, Carlos Boozer, Mike Dunleavy, Chris Duhon
2000: Michigan State
Mateen Cleaves, Morris Peterson, Jason Richardson, Charlie Bell
1999: Connecticut
Rip Hamilton, Khalid El-Amin, Jake Voskuhl
1998: Kentucky
Jamal Magloire, Nazr Mohammed, Scott Padgett, Jeff Sheppard
1997: Arizona
Mike Bibby, Miles Simon, Michael Dickerson, Jason Terry, A.J. Bramlett,
1996: Kentucky
Tony Delk, Antoine Walker, Walter McCarty, Derek Anderson, Ron Mercer, Nazr Mohammed, Jeff Sheppard, Mark Pope, Wayne Turner
1995: UCLA
Ed O'Bannon, George Zidek, Tyus Edney, Charles O'Bannon, Toby Bailey
1994: Arkansas
Corliss Williamson, Darnell Robinson, Corey Beck
1993: North Carolina
George Lynch, Eric Montross, Kevin Salvadori
1992: Duke
Christian Laettner, Grant Hill, Bobby Hurley, Thomas Hill, Antonio Lang, Cherokee Parks
1991: Duke
Christian Laettner, Grant Hill, Bobby Hurley, Brian Hill, Antonio Lang
1990: UNLV
Larry Johnson, Stacy Augmon, Greg Anthony, George Ackles
1989: Michigan
Glen Rice, Rumeal Robinson, Loy Vaught, Terry Mills, Sean Higgins
1988: Kansas
Danny Manning, Archie Marshall, Kevin Pritchard
1987: Indiana
Steve Alford, Dean Garrett, Keith Smart
1986: Louisville
Pervis Ellison, Billy Thompson, Milt Wagner, Kenny Payne
1985: Villanova
Ed Pinckney, Harold Pressley, Dwayne McClain
1984: Georgetown
Patrick Ewing, Bill Martin, Reggie Williams, David Wingate, Michael Jackson
1983: North Carolina State
Lorenzo Charles, Thurl Bailey, Sidney Lowe
1982: North Carolina
Michael Jordan, James Worthy, Sam Perkins
1981: Indiana
Isiah Thomas, Ray Tolbert, Randy Wittman, Jim Thomas, Ted Kitchel
1980: Louisville
Darrell Griffith, Derek Smith, Jerry Eaves, Roger Burkman, Rodney McCray, Scooter McCray
1979: Michigan State
Magic Johnson, Greg Kelser, Jay Vincent
1978: Kentucky
Kyle Macy, Rick Robey, Jack Givens, James Lee
1977: Marquette
Bo Ellis, Bernard Toone, Butch Lee, Jerome Whitehead
1976: Indiana
Scott May, Quinn Buckner, Kent Benson, Bobby Wilkerson, Wayne Radford
1975: UCLA
Marquis Johnson, Richard Washington, Andre McCarter, Ralph Drollinger, David Meyers
1974: North Carolina State
Tom Burleson, David Thompson, Monte Towe
1973: UCLA
Bill Walton, David Meyers, Keith Wilkes, Greg Lee, Swen Nater
1972: UCLA
Bill Walton, Keith Wilkes, Greg Lee, Henry Bibby
1971: UCLA
Sidney Wicks, Henry Bibby, Curtis Rowe, Steve Patterson
1970: UCLA
Sidney Wicks, Henry Bibby, John Vallely, Steve Patterson
1969: UCLA
Lew Alcindor, Lucius Allen, John Vallely, Steve Patterson
This post does not reflect the views of the blog authors or SB Nation.
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Comments
I'll say 4.
Harris is a lock and Bouldin and Sacre are probables. That leaves me gambling on one of the other guys to make it. Maybe Steven finds his 3 point shot again. Maybe Kelly develops into a guy who can beat you inside and outside offensively. Maybe Manny becomes one of the premier defenders in college hoops while still being able to contribute offensively.
2 or 3.
Elias, Matt, and either Sacre or Steven. Elias and Matt will find themselves starting (thank science this happened the year after Detroit drafted Darko #2) and no one would mind a 6’5" guard with the handles and shot Gray has, with the improvements he would make at the next level. As for the freshmen, it’s all just potential as of now, who knows?
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Definitely Elias and Matt
and I also think Kelly and Robert are good options.
Don’t sleep on Kong either. He’s got the tools.
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Did their pro qualities win those championships?
Or did the championships somehow give them pro qualities?
A lot of those teams seem to have one real pro and a few guys that didn’t last at all in the NBA. (1999, 2000 stuck out) So it’s interesting, shows how good Carmelo really is!
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Somewhat flawed argument
After the first two rounds a lot of the success depends on matchups and luck. Yea, if you have three NBA players you’ll definitely have a better shot, but let’s not kid ourselves – we’ve never had three NBA ballers on the team at the same time, so either we need to give on that or accept that we’ll likely never make the Final Four.
IMO, if Gray puts up 15-18 a night the rest of the way we are a legitimate Final Four threat. Having him make outside shots removes the pressure on Meech to score, and it makes the other team have to commit to defending the perimeter. Once that happens Harris and Sacre have more room to maneuver, and all of a sudden we’re firing on all cylinders.
Gray is the key this year.
Don't totally agree with Parrish but for debate.
I see 1 NBA Player for sure, “E”. One player who might get drafted in the second, Matt and several Euro players. The only other possibility could be Rob with a breakout season next year. JMO
"one ESPN announcer has already stated he thinks Olynk will play in the NBA"
I’m guessing it was a Stephen Bardo quote. I wouldn’t repeat anything Bardo says unless you are making a joke.
FWIW...
Bardo says KO will play “at the next level.” There’s a lot of leagues at the next level.
I don’t see anyone but EH (pretty big maybe) and maybe Rob (huge maybe) sticking in the league. Are we including players who get drafted as NBA players? If so, there’s a huge difference between getting drafted and making a team.
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Clarification:
Bardo was referring to the NBA in that Olynk comment because if you remember he went on to say how he didn’t have to talk about Elias because everybody already knows he’s headed to the NBA.
The Gary Parrish article (which can be four here:http://new.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/11163427) explains the definition of “NBA Player”.
“…what I did was examine the rosters of the past 41 national champions and identify players who went on to either A) be selected in the first two rounds of the NBA Draft or B) play in the NBA at some point even though they might’ve been drafted later or actually gone undrafted. And what I found was that you can count on one hand (one team) how many times in the past 41 seasons that a national champion didn’t have at least three players who went on to be a first-round pick, second-round pick or an NBA player via a more unconventional route.”
by giantkillerzags on Feb 17, 2010 8:24 AM PST up reply actions
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Bardo can’t be trusted, the guy is nearly incompetent at his job. There’s a reason he has to get sent out here to talk up WCC teams like SMC and UP, no one that is really knowledgeable could talk about SMC as a real threat in March and keep a straight face.
The point I made earlier:
Did those groups win titles because they were pros?
or
Were they drafted because they were on good teams from big schools?
You need one pro, and if he wins a title you all of a sudden have 4 or 5 pros…
Welcome to the Sound Pound...
I agree with you on Bardo. I’d say the man’s in a close fight with Ehlo in terms of intelligent commentary.
As for your second point, the answer is the groups won titles because they were pros, no question. There are plenty of NBA players from small schools and conversely lots of athletes from big-name programs that never break into the league. There is the issue of visibility of the bigger programs which may have some small impact on the draft, but it’s not going to turn someone into a great NBA player. Not a title team, but just look at the ’06 George Mason final four team as an example – their star player (Jai Lewis) was not drafted and is now playing over in the Philippines.
missed my point i think...
I am referring to years like 1995, 1999, 2000, and 2002 where the championship team had just one (or zero) guys that were real NBA talent and they drug some of their teammates into the hype.
1995-UCLA: No real pros.
1999-UConn: Rip Hamilton is proven. El-Amin and Voskuhl vanished. They were not pros, but winning the title made them draftable or signable.
2000-MSU: Jason Richardson is proven. The other guys were just along for the ride, no NBA relevancy.
2002-Maryland: Steve Blake? Chris Wllcox? No one else turned out to be anything worth writing about even though neither of these guys would’ve made it without the title. What happened to Juan Dixon?
What I am trying to say is you don’t need any NBA players to win it, you need great college players and a great coach. Winning a title creates “pro players” that are only hyped because of the title. This fanpost’s information is skewed, because teams on there with 4 or 5 “pros” had one or two of them before holding up the trophy, and winning it all made the stars’ supporting cast members look like pros, ya know? These stats also include guys that just played on summer teams or got cut soon after being signed. About half of the guys listed in the fanpost were legit NBA players, and the rest got to the NBA because they were on a BCS conf. team that won it all.
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by SoundPound on Feb 17, 2010 12:47 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
good point about college players vs. nba players
You’re right on about needing great college players rather than necessarily NBA players — there’s a huge difference. I think Adam Morrison’s a perfect example. The guy was a straight out NCAA baller but I know many people, as I did, questioned his ability to contribute in the NBA. And we all know how that’s played out…
No Bol Kong on this list, I think he has a good shot at the next level if he plays lots next year and develops his defensive game and become more rounded on offense instead of relying on the three, he has the natural talent and his wingspan is ridiculous
Didn't meant to leave Kong off the list - just got tired
My take on Kong:
He needs to work on lateral quickness and coordination to defend at the next level. His release also needs to be quickened a bit and with his length he should not be drifting backwards on his jumper. He does have great touch on the ball.
by giantkillerzags on Feb 16, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions
Good take on Kong
He gets his shot off too slow and has trouble beating guys off the bounce. His defense has improved tremendously, hopefully his offense improves a lot over the summer? I’m sure Few and the boys will have a tight leash on him all summer, with conditioning and drills.
A degree from Gonzaga....worth a lot!
I really don’t like discussing NBA potential for our Zags. I guess I’m old fashion, but I see these kids as student-athletes who have an opportunity to get a quality education and to play for one of the premier basketball schools in the country. However, money comes into the picture a lot of times and ruins a lot of dreams of young college basketball players. I’ve seen more than one player thinking he was as good as the hype being bantered around about him and ended up giving up his college eligibility and entering the draft, only to get booted around and never amount to anything at the next level. Some of them, unfortunately, never get the opportunity to get a college degree. So I say to all the Zag players, in all sincerity, get your degree, because it will be the most important thing you’ll receive for your time at Gonzaga. That along with the friends you will make and the adoration of the Zag family that will embrace you for the rest of your lives.
Getting down to the question….I definitely see Elias Harris playing at the next level. The kid is just a remarkable player and is a winner. I believe he needs more seasoning and that only comes through playing at a consistent, high level, which he will get over the next year or so at Gonzaga. I believe Matt Bouldin will be drafted by the NBA. IMO he will not be a starter for an NBA team, but will be a valuable man off the bench, and those guys have long and lucrative careers. I eventually see Matt coaching at the college level and would love to see him return to Gonzaga to join the staff here after his pro career is over. I see Rob Sacre playing in the NBA because of his size and developing skills. He needs work like Elias, because he lost a lot of development due to injuries. If he develops like he has over this year, he will be a first-round pick in his senior year. Steven Gray is one of my favorite players, but unless he really improves next year as he has this year, I doubt he will drafted by the NBA. He will definitely play at the next level, but more than likely for a foreign team.
As for the other Zags, it’s difficult for me to see them in the NBA right now because they have not had the opportunity to shine in games. By the end of next year, we will be able to evaluate them properly. Again, all this is conjecture and speculation. One thing is certain, getting an education and a degree from Gonzaga will be something that will be a valuable asset for all of the players, and the fact that they played in this great basketball program will be something that will be a source of pride for the rest of their lives and a source of respect by many people they will interact with in the future. That’s worth a lot…and something I hope all of them will consider before believing a lot of "hype" about how they’ll do in professional basketball and how much money they’ll make doing it.
Agree with you except for Gray
Steven Gray is going to Hollywood!
Dunno if NBA money can compete with those movie royalties!
Seriously, a lock down defender — not matter what his size is something a lot of NBA teams can use.
Dunno how Steven will match up against Kobe but . . . we may find out some day.
mjc
Not to call you crazy or anything...
But I think we know how Steve would hypothetically match up against Kobe, and it wouldn’t be pretty.
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Kobe will be older
You have to remember this won’t happen for a couple years at the earliest. A lot can happen in a couple years!
mjc
give me a break
Kobe was in the NBA when he was 18. Not a bench player, but not yet an impact player. By the time he was Steven’s age now, he was an impact player in the NBA. Common on.
Love Steven, but let’s not get carried away.
by GU.AmericasTeam on Feb 17, 2010 4:20 PM PST up reply actions
It's a tough decision
I would like to see these kids stay, but it’s only so they can continue to improve as people and help their school and program. It’s selfish for fans to think that though. I agree the degree is great, but when your first choice for a career is calling and begging you to come work for them and make millions of guaranteed dollars at 19; it’s an easy and logical choice to make that I’m sure most of us would take. I never fault a kid for leaving or think they should feel guilty for not completing their degree; they can always come back and finish that if their first career choice doesn’t work out. But if they decide to stay, well, lucky us!
by trufflshuffl on Feb 16, 2010 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
Hate the NBA discussions, but...
There’s so many D1 players and only 60 or so get selected, about a quarter of which are foreigners these days…do the math.
Anyhow, Harris then Manny then Bouldin have the best shot to stick in the league.
The NBA is a whole different beast
Elias is an NBA player, but he will only play if he figures out how to shoot. I think he might be the only one.
Lets not forget that NBA players are the most talented guys on their team, more times than not. I chose the word talent because, although they might not be the best college players they have the most talent. An example I choose is Tyrus Thomas, although he wasn’t the best player on that team (Glen Davis was), he was the most talented and thats what made him a top 5 choice, and a decent player(other than his attitude) in the NBA.
I don’t think you have to look any farther than the Memphis series as evidence that Matt is not an NBA player, and certainly one that won’t start. He struggles mightily against them the last two years, years in which they had legit NBA prospects playing guard (Derek Rose, CDR, Tyreke Evans). Now that they don’t have that NBA player he goes on to have a good game. Matt has always struggled against lengthy athletic players, and thats all he’ll see in the NBA. Many guys who are on NBA teams as their 11th or 12th guys have a specialty, whether that be lights out shooter, defensive stopper etc. Matt has a good overall game but he doesn’t have one thing that will stand out to have him make a team as a back-end of the rotation guy. And he isn’t athletic or quick enough to play legitimate minutes in the NBA. I’m not saying that he isn’t a great college player, his game just doesn’t translate.
And its way too early to mention anyone else. There are a lot of things that need to go right for guys like Bol or Manny to make it any higher than what Micah became, a summer camp invitee that didn’t make the team. Same is true for Rob who needs to figure out how to dominate before he can even dream of the NBA. And I don’t think Kelly is even in that breath yet, he needs way more lateral quickness and a much better shot to make the league as a skinny post player. Right now he is a very poor man’s Austin Daye, without the attitude.
These guys might get there, but right now we only have one guy that is guaranteed to make a team, and another that might get drafted but won’t contribute for a long time.
I wanted to add more about Rob
Even guys that dominate with a huge frame don’t necessarily make a splash in the league. My example is Aaron Gray of Pittsburgh. He put up great numbers at PITT and he was 3 inches taller than Rob. But his game didn’t translate to the league, he was too slow to defend well and he just didn’t earn an opportunity to play much. I see many of the same issues with Rob, his footwork on defense is poor. Also he doesn’t rebound and defend well enough to stick with guys like Kaman, Camby, Dalembert, Noah and we won’t even mention Dwight. He might figure it out, but right now there is no way he could be considered an NBA prospect.
improvement?
Are you saying Matt hasn’t improved? I too was a critic of his against more athletic opponents, but this year he has proved me wrong and has shown he can score against doubles as well as athletic teams! He’s much better this year than last!
Absolutely not saying he hasn't improved
I think he has improved vastly. I think his shot selection is much better, I think his defense has gotten better, I think his ability to get to the basket has gotten much better, I think his handling of the game is better, I think he has a leadership mentality that he didn’t have(he didn’t have to have before).
But that is the thing, although he has improved himself as an overall better basketball player he has not gotten faster, he has not improved his vertical leap and he has not improved his quickness. These are things that a person is born with(despite what JumpSoles commercials will tell you). Matt has the basketball game to play in the NBA, but he doesn’t have the quickness and athletic ability to make an impact in the NBA. He is not fast enough to guard point guards like Monta Ellis, Tyreke Evans, Aaron Brooks, Derick Rose and we won’t even mention guys like Nash, Deron Williams and Chris Paul.
He doesn’t have the height to guard the 2 position in the NBA, and he can’t create his own shot against those tall athletic guys. Matt is a ‘tweener and its too bad. If he was 2 inches taller, he’d have a chance. But really what he needs is more quickness and athletic ability.
He is an amazing college player that has helped take Gonzaga to heights we could have only dreamed of. His game, much like Adam Morisson, Dan Dickau and Blake Steppe before him, does not translate to the NBA.
Here's one major thing about the debate....
Does winning the championship have an impact on your NBA futures? I would certainly say it does. Teams fall in love with players that have one good game in the NCAA Tourney. It greatly inflates draft stocks, so maybe this is more of a case of winning a championship creating NBA players than future NBA players winning championships.
On top of that a lot of these guys are terrible in the NBA. I mean look at Arkansas’s trio: Corliss Williamson, Darnell Robinson, Corey Beck. Uhhh…yeah. The key player of Michgan State’s title run was Mateen Cleaves, a guy who was essentially a gloried cheerleader in the NBA.
If you really look at it, most of these title teams only had one guy who became a decent pro (if that). So I really doubt how much it matters.
That's exactly what I said above
read my post that starts with “missed my point”. Most of the guys on that list made it to the league 100% because of the trophy. The whole ‘debate’ is flawed due to the fact that we have one or 2 pros, but if we won the hardware we would have 5 all of a sudden. I was hoping more people would catch on…
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valid point
I understood Soundpound’s argument from the beginning and I do think it is a valid point. The reason I didn’t respond right away is because although I am sure it plays a factor but it is hard to quantify how much. I do know the NBA is a businesses, and to allow the hype of a national champion to move a mediocre player up a draft board is bad business. That being said, we have all seen it happen. I think certain organizations (the bad ones) are more susceptible to this kind of hype. By my own admission, I said if Bouldin took us to the Final 4 he would play himself into the 1st round. The distinction here is that Bouldin already has an NBA body, an NBA skill-set, and stat line after stat-line of NBA worthy numbers. If a player like Gerry McNamara wins it all (as he did with Syracuse) he still probably wont be drafted because he is “too small or too slow.” A player like that could average 30 pts in the tourney and it still won’t matter. You must have a certain level of skill, size or athletic potential for march madness hype to work in your favor.
by giantkillerzags on Feb 18, 2010 1:18 PM PST up reply actions

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