Young and impressionable
by Zach Bell on Jan 31, 2010 11:35 AM PST
38 comments
If you are like me, you probably ran the emotional gamut last night. The obvious things we all feel are initial shock, followed by anger and blame, and then some brief bouts of sadness. This morning, in all honesty, I woke up and just laughed. I think I had this reaction for a couple of reasons. First of all, it's just one of those losses that is so crazy that it's funny. The #8 team in the country loses to a program not even in the top 250 according to KenPom is just insane. The second component of my morning chuckle was still happiness because I know this team still has the components to be great.
I realize that I might be in the minority of fans that laughed the morning after such a loss but Gonzaga basketball has really prepared us for these kind of moments. Last year it was Portland State followed by Utah. Other years it has been Virginia, or LMU, or even this same San Francisco program. What I'm trying to say is that to be head over heels shocked at last night's loss would be the true delusion. Complacency is one of those things that is hard for teams to avoid when they are riding a nine game win streak and have beaten their best conference competition all on the road. That complacency can grow even more when you give subpar efforts but continue to win. If you watched the Pepperdine and Santa Clara games, you could tell that the Zags were already in "we show up, we win" mode.
Last night Dior Lowhorn and San Francisco called them on it. They hung around all game long and Dior Lowhorn elevated his game to a Devan Downey-esque performance where he just wasn't going to lose. Now it is Gonzaga's turn to respond. Last year we saw the Portland State loss really snowball into a rough stretch that saw the Zags lose to a pitiful Utah team. For whatever reason, I have full confidence that this team will respond with flair. It doesn't mean that improvements aren't needed however...
I should give EDZ some credit for this post. Last night he texted me that he thought this was the best thing that could happen to this team and that we'd respond. Then, this morning as I was getting some perspective, I went back in our archives and stumbled upon this gem after Portland State and this one after Utah written by my fellow blog founder. Obviously the comparisons between last year's team and this year's team are few and far between. Only three legit holdovers, three new starters, and a virtually brand new bench have given our club a new attitude. The best thing we have going for us, however, might be that we've got a young team.
A year ago, EDZ questioned whether or not some of our star players had tuned Mark Few out and began to play for themselves. I'd rather not get into that but I think it is worth noting because now Coach Few and the staff has the opportunity to really impress upon these young players that they are not God's gift to the WCC. They will be tested game in, game out and they aren't talented enough yet to sleepwalk through 35 minutes. At the same time, I think it is important that the staff takes a good deal of responsibility for this loss. The seemingly planned spoon feeding of Robert Sacre in the post is good in doses but to completely ignore your most versatile player in Elias Harris is just poor coaching. It was remarkable how hard Harris had to work for his shots last night. It's important that we continue to find Elias in positions where he can create and not rely on him to make spectacular plays each time down.
Now that we've gotten the FEED HARRIS message out there, the next biggest part of a big response is the bench. My biggest concern is the mental mindset of our bench players. It appears that Will Foster can't get over 8-10 minutes a game no matter how he's playing. The rest of the guys are pulled the minute they miss a pair of shots. I really do wonder about the bench's confidence because they are seemingly looking over their shoulder after every missed shot because they know they are coming out. The first 10-15 minutes of each game seem to be a guess and check science experiment by Mark Few to see which guy he likes most each night. There has to be some sort of continuity with who plays each night. This is obviously a two way street between the players and coaching staff. Someone's got to step up but there are times when Few has to let someone in a funk like Bol or Kelly work their way out of it.
The next three games are now very intriguing. Before the year we expected a loss or two in conference but no one saw last night coming. Portland and Saint Mary's are both incredibly hot right now in conference play and they have got to be drooling at the thought of coming into K2 and knocking off the Zags. Sandwiched in between those two games is Memphis. While the Tigers are a program in flux, they are still arguably the biggest monkey on the back of Gonzaga as they've won each match up the last four years. You better believe the Memphis fan base will be as excited as ever to get Gonzaga at home because they are still searching for a marquee win that could lift them to another tournament appearance.
Mark Few now has plenty of ammo to fire his club up. He said in postgame interviews that his team was playing with fire because their intensity was low. There is no longer an excuse for this to happen again and I really do expect to see a ruthless Gonzaga team hit the floor against Portland. Anything less, and we could be talking about some serious problems.
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Which coaching move was worse: Forsaking Harris by pounding it inside to Sacre, or forsaking Sacre when it was clear USF couldn’t stop him? I’m in a small group of people who think Mark Few is overrated (which is fine…I probably overreact most of the time anyways), but I’m also trying hard to come up with coaching moves he’s gotten right this season and coming up empty.
This loss might be the best thing to happen to this team (although I generally don’t think losing is ever good motivation), but I think this recent stretch as a whole might be the best thing to happen to us fans. We probably bought into the hype that we all created after the non-con schedule, and we’ve forgotten that this was actually supposed to be a rebuilding year. Maybe we (myself included) will find a new kind of reality somewhere in between “Best team in the Mark Few-era?” and “These guys are terrible.”
Go Zags.
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Few
Is overrated. Your group is growing every game. Not saying to can the guy, but his 80 % win pct. could be much better if he had a clue how to close out a game.
Welcome to the Sound Pound...
Best coaching job of his career...
…way to go Coach Few
A coach does not lose to inferior opponents. How about Dior’s 5 3s, how about our missed free-throws and ineptitude beyond the arc? C’mon Few’s done a sensational job with the loaded roster we have. Nobody would have thought we’d have this record (i.e., we’re overachieving).
So you think coach forsake Harris and Sacre on purpose to lose? Get out from under your rock dude…
Toughness
Many — myself included — have been saying that this Gonzaga squad is tougher than in years past. Well, we’re about to find out whether that’s the case. There are two ways teams can respond to a loss: using it as motivation (like Georgetown did yesterday) or sinking even further. Frankly, I think the Zags should have come out hungry after the SCU debacle, but, for whatever reason, that clearly wasn’t enough. If this loss to USF isn’t enough, then this team probably isn’t as tough as it’s been made out to be.
A bad loss....but a lesson learned
I have no doubt that this team is tougher and scrappier than some Gonzaga teams of the past. We’ve been looked at as a finesse team by many analysts, but this team IMO has changed that thinking.
I was as frustrated as every Zag fan at last night’s performance, but I sincerely believe this team will respond in a positive way to this loss. It seems to me the Zags have been playing with fire, as they have allowed teams to "stick around" instead of "sealing the deal" like they should. We were lucky that we didn’t lose two games this past road trip, since the Santa Clara game could have easily been a loss, too. Unfortunately last night, we had an "off day" by our stalwarts. Matt had a tough time shooting the ball, as did Steven. That won’t happen often! Elias, who has been phenomenal the last month, was double-teamed a lot and had to fight for every point. It wasn’t made easier for him IMO since the guards did not get the ball to Elias in good positions for him to score. The pass into the post needs improvement as it wasn’t very good last night. I thought Rob had a solid game, but the bench was not special last night. KO, Bol, and Manny did not shine and that leads to problems for us when they don’t perform well. I thought Grant Gibb did a nice job last night. I wish he would shoot a bit more, but he seems to defer a lot to the other guys. He has a beautiful shot with great mechanics.
Let’s put this game quickly behind us and focus on the future. Portland and Memphis should be excellent games and I’d like to see the Zags play well and tough and against both teams. Go Zags!
A good team
I think this year’s team is good, not great (but definitely great moments) and young. As for being tough, I’ve always thought the previous Zag teams were tough enough to win.
I’m confident that they’ll bounce back and be ready for their upcoming games. If anything, I think this team gets up for big games (I think the Duke game was a fluke) and overlooks teams they think they should beat.
by allrachel on Jan 31, 2010 12:09 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
AGREED.
Yes, we came into last night’s game with 3 losses. Two very tough losses and a destruction by a national powerhouse. Yes, the team is a lot tougher than most Zag teams in the past.
Here’s my comparison to what I think of a great Zag team. We have the great shooting guard(s), we don’t have that assist guy, we actually have a legit power forward, we don’t have much of a small forward, and god knows we don’t have that powerhouse big man. Most years we have two good guards and a big man, the other two holes are filled with defense.
Now, I didn’t watch last night’s game because I assumed, as I’m sure many Zag fans did, that it’d be a blowout. A friend text me as USF was storming the court and I was in shock. But in reality, we don’t have the “complete” team that people would like to think that we have and losses happen.
Last year was possibly the best team GU has ever seen in a talent sense and hopefully in the next few years, we can say that about this team, obviously minus Bouldin and Will.
I agree that the bench guys need their time. If Rob was killing USF, who’s to say Will wouldn’t? Plus that’s an extra five fouls if we needed to stop them. Now, the only legitimate place I can say Hack-A-Shaq is necessary is when people sandbag D league in intramural basketball, but their free throws were WORSE than ours. That’s saying something.
Also, in normal Gonzaga contexts, we can’t stop the three ball. For some reason, Mark Few feels like the three isn’t that important to defend and it kills us in nearly every game. Steven can play some awesome defense, so why isn’t he stopping someone like Lowhorn who hit as many threes as our ENTIRE team did.
I know this is just a rant of what was bad and has been bad, but maybe… just maybe… there can be some sort of change in this scheme.
Three huge games in a row now with a TON of traveling. We’ll see how the boys pick it up after a huge loss.
The loss will be the best thing for this team...
Gonzaga has a team this year that is learning how to handle the quirky WCC. Last year we had veterans that we used to the small gym, the crazy crowds, biggest moment on the campus all year type stuff. Really this year there are only 2 players (Matt and Steven) that played big time minutes in WCC road games before.
As a fan I looked at the SCU/USF weekend as a “tune up” weekend before Portland and Memphis so I can imagine the players did as well. Honestly, I think this loss will serve as a large wake up call for the team. I expect a tough week of practice and an absolute obliteration of Portland. If people need proof that a loss can be the biggest motivator, please look at the Syracuse Orange. They went from losing to a non D1 team in the preseason to now steamrolling people in the Big East on their way to a #1 seed.
Depends on the team
Last year’s loss to Portland St. didn’t help with Utah. Last year’s Georgetown team fell apart after losses to Notre Dame and Duke. The good teams respond after a loss. Others don’t.
I think this will be good for us
After losing to Duke, I was worried we would fall apart like teams in the past and go on skid….but we bounced back and played A LOT of tough games mostly on the road…I am hoping this will have the same effect – motivate us to play the rest of the season with the intensity we played in late December/early January.
Must look at the bigger picture, the December losses in 08 did help the team...
They went through the WCC’s undefeated, ran through the WCC tournament and made it to the Sweet 16….The PSU/Utah losses were way more about terrible scheduling and team chemistry….the current Zags don’t have those problems as of right now.
good time to refocus
Good time for the time to re-focus. They get EVERYONE’S best shot in the WCC. We got carrried away with the wins and ranking a bit.
Lowhorn is a good player.
Hopefully, they will have a good week of practice and get back to winning and playing more consistent basketball.
Josh Normand
If this team looses most of their remaining games,
then they will still be a good team, playing better than my pre-season expectations. What they have accomplished this far has pleasantly suprised me. If this young team gels and improves from where they are now, then they will be the best ever. They are already good now, the rest is icing on the cake.
Tom117
I actually like the term looses
It insinuates that they lose as a result of their loose style of play and apathetic appearance. A loose is a loss resulting from too many turnovers, poor fundamentals, etc.
Zagnificent - GU Class of 2011
Changes seeding
This loss will obviously send Gonzaga to a higher seed. It could be the difference between a 4 seed and a 6 or 7 seed now.
VERY young
I was thinking about it earlier today, and realized that only 3 players on the roster had ever lost a WCC game. Bouldin, Gray and Foster. Sacre was being redshirted when the Zags lost last, so you might count him, I guess.
We weren’t the eighth best team in the country. Not even 13th. We have a lot to work on. Harris, even, has a lot to improve. I am no longer thinking he is a sure thing for a lottery pick at the end of this year. Meech needs to get it out of control – last night tried to run into a double team and ran right out of bounds on the baseline and I lost it. That was pure stupidity – there wasn’t anywhere to go, there wasn’t anything he could’ve seen, and he didn’t barely step out, he barreled out of bounds with both feet. I can see why Gibbs played so many minutes down the stretch, but he has problems, too. He’s certainly a worse defender.
When Meech is shooting better from 3 in a game than Gray… ugh. And Gray wasn’t smiling at all when we took the lead late like he did against Santa Clara.
You can say we need to work it in to Harris, but that’s really only the tip of the iceberg. Harris was definitely part of the strategy; it was probably just a situation of insufficient emphasis. We have talent. We have strategy. The real problem is execution, tactics. Too many players were taking poor shots when we needed to be more patient in the moment. Guards keep making short passes under the basket to Rob/Will that they aren’t going to be able to catch. It was really a lot of little moments of inexperience, plus our bad luck behind the arc and their good luck. We can’t change luck but we have enough talent to take it out of the equation if we play with more maturity and efficiency. I know we get every team’s best game but we oughta be able to blow some teams out in conference if we are a top 25 team. BYU can. Here’s to hoping this loss motivates our Zags into making the necessary improvements.
I'm just going to wear black for a few days.
Sorry folks, but free throws did us in. Making 1 out of 7 or 8 at the beginning of the game . . . It was going to happen — we would lose because of poor performances at the line — and it did. Even Steven Gray contributed and he’s the best we have . . .
We are going to see a steady diet of hard fouls under the basket until we can shoot a decent percentage. If a team can keep the game in the 60’s or even 70’s and use a lot of bench fouls, the Zags can be beat. Not every game. But if you put our guys at the line you give yourself a chance.
I’m going to mope for a few days. I don’t see anyway out of this any time soon.
mjc
Oh Com'on Man
“I’m going to mope for a few days. I don’t see anyway out of this any time soon.”
I’m thinking these guys have the guts to put a loss behind them. They proved that to me after the Duke game when they came back and won a bunch of games. They will be fine.
I love to watch favored teams get beat, don’t you?
I really don’t like my beloved Zags lose though.
I do have one question. What happened to Gonzaga basketball. Did’t they used to run plays rather than play “one-on-one playground” basketball ?
Free Throws and One-one-One
Memphis shot 61% from the line two years ago and they made it to the Championship game. Sure, they likely have more talent than us (and a number one pick in D. Rose), but the point is a team can overcome FT shooting.
One-on-One playground basketball – I assume you mean the last shot of the game, because this team is more team and set-play oriented than we’ve had in a while. Bouldin plays to his strengths which could be a dribble drive against inferior opponents; Harris exploits mismatches. For the most part, we don’t have selfish players on this team.
Free throws again
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a huge problem on THIS team…just playing devil’s advocate.
Free throws!
It doesn’t appear Matt or Steven are having a problem with free throws. It appears the rest of the team is. Memphis had twice the talent and didn’t need to make 75-80% of their ft’s! Bad lumping, bad comparison. In short, this team doesn’t blow out others big time and need the free throws to go down. A problem that many shouldn’t include Steven and Matt in when generalizing as most do here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder
What would be the comments on here had the ref’s called the goal tending call..and Zags win by 2…..would we still think and say the things that have been said? Food for thought
You know its Gonzaga's fault
We were/are the school that taught the world that anyone could beat anyone on any given night, consistently even.
We have been compelling the rest of the WCC to be more equitable to Gonzaga so as to improve the conference’s perception to the rest of the NCAA, especially the selection committee; mission accomplished.
Gonzaga is a top twenty program, not just a top twenty team.
All of the WCC must play to Gonzaga caliber basketball to become greater than a mid major conference; mission near completion/
Near Completion?
I would argue we still have a LONG way to go. They’re getting better, but very slowly.
Zagnificent - GU Class of 2011
Loss at USF
We should have fouled Lowhorn out of the game. He had 4 fouls for a good part of the 2nd half.
Lowhorn's fouls
Bingo. I’m a big Few supporter, but I was screaming when we didn’t attack him more. This happened in a game last year too…gotta take the opponent’s best player off the floor when you get the chance!!!
I was not laughing
It was more like …crying.
Then I gained 5 pounds eating at Golden Coral to salve my pain…LOL!
GO ZAGS!!~
Its gonna be gLoRiOUS!!~
It's time for a gut check!
How can anyone take us seriously when we lose to the teams we should beat down (USF) and we get blown out by the teams considered to be major contenders in march (Duke). Don’t get me wrong, I love our team. Gonzaga basketball has been an addiction that began in my youth and has grown into my adulthood. But it’s time to be honest and ask ourselves how much longer we can accept average play and questionable coaching. Why does Zag Nation seem so satisfied? I’m tired of the hype usually backed up with average performances in March. If we want to be an elite program it’s time for our coaching staff and players to start thinking and acting with a final four mindset. Mark Few, you’re a great coach and an outstanding recruiter, I appreciate your loyalty and dedication to our program, but how about the choice of play call during crucial timeouts. We had a great opportunity to win against USF in the closing seconds of regulation and it was wasted. Was Gray jogging up and taking an ugly 3-point shot the game winning strategy? We didn’t need to call time out for that, they could have done that on their own. Oh and Stephen Gray, how about your free throws? This isn’t the first time this year you’ve choked at the line when it really matters. Robert Sacre? The biggest waste of 7’, 240lbs or the biggest waste of 7’, 240lbs ever? I’ll put you down for biggest waste ever. Dude you’re gigantic, play like it. When you hold the ball so long before making a move to the basket, you have to settle for the baby hook. Why not go strong and dunk on these fools or at least get fouled? I know you’re all tired of hearing about defending the three, but not as tired as I am watching every single team we play light us up. Ok, ok, things aren’t all bad. Olynyk, Kong, Arop continue to improve their game and we are getting great minutes from Foster. Elias Harris YOU ARE THE MAN, NBA game mixed with urgency and effort. Matt Bouldin, we need more of this from you. Your numbers are great, but YOUR team needs you to lead them into a frenzy. This is your last chance, act like it! Stop chewing your gum long enough to yell at a freshman. I wonder if our guys are aware that Portland and Saint Mary’s are sitting around with big grins on their faces because they think their walking onto our floor and leaving with a couple of wins. I’m having night mares of Omar Samhan and that ugly smirk on his face. It’s time for the smack down Bulldogs! If we want any respect in March we need to embarrass the Pilots and the Gales and crush Memphis. We represent the best in the west but the serious competition is laughing. Sorry for the rant. I’m tired. Good night.
Average in March?
How many tournament wins does it take over a decade for a non major conference team to be better than average in your opinion??? Ridiculous. Gonzaga is an overachieving program. They have made the impossible possible by creating a major program out of thin air. Now, after losing 4 starters to professional basketball, they are overachieving again and still are a Top 25 team and even snuck in to the Top 10 for a week. Take a step back and really take a look at this program and this season. This is a remarkable team, a remarkable coaching staff, and a remarkable school. Don’t sweat the small stuff, just enjoy the ride. I personally enjoy watching a Top 25 non major conference team every year with Final Four expectations that they one day may unbelievably meet. Don’t you?
by trufflshuffl on Feb 3, 2010 7:58 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Talking About NCAA Seeding
Let’s stop worrying about whether we’re going to be playing in Spokane or AZ in the NCAA and make sure we get into the dance at all!
As much as I am worried about how we will do in the Tourney, I am not worried about getting there. We are still in the WCC afterall. Despite Few thinking we’re even with teams in the WCC, I still think we’re way better than everyone else as a team. USF was a result of not being prepared for their best shot (which we will get from every WCC team). We’ve been playing more and more lax lately and it finally caught up with us. Again, Few and I disagree, but I think the USF loss will be a wake up call for the guys and we will win the rest of the conference games. I am a little worried about Memphis, but a loss to them won’t keep us out of the tournament.
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