Postgame heart-attack hotline: Zags win ugly in Chicago
by Zach Bell on Jan 2, 2010 12:44 PM PST
61 comments
I'm sure we'll have plenty to say about this game in the next few days but I just wanted to throw up a quick post game thread to let you vent/celebrate/curse/or whatever other emotion you are feeling.
We have come to expect insane things with this Gonzaga team but this is really in a whole new realm. Gonzaga led by 21 early, fell asleep in the middle of the game, and finally woke up in time to steal a win from Illinois in Chicago.
There's a world of negatives we can harp on from this game. Demetri Goodson really, really struggled with turnovers and offensive decision making, Matt Bouldin may have played his worst game not against Memphis for the first 30 minutes, and just the team in general got totally out of sync to the point where fans in our game thread were nearing heart attack levels!
The overarching positive is Elias Harris. He's a true gamer and is the best freshman I've seen in a Gonzaga uniform. He's confident, fiery, and stepped up at the end of the game with big play after big play. He kind of got worked out of the offensive flow in the middle twenty minutes of the game but really asserted himself and flat out wouldn't let his team lose.
I've also got to give a little credit to Steven Gray. He came out of the gates and was the main reason for Gonzaga's big lead, then REALLY fell asleep in the middle of the game but made a few big shots late in traffic and sank two huge free throws before fouling out on a bogus call. I've come to really expect feeling a wave of emotions from Steven and today was no different. Matt Bouldin is the same way. Awful (and I mean awful) early but then hit a few big shots that helped this team win.
All in all, I'm happy. We won and enter conference play on a high note.
What say you?
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Bigs
I thought Rob and Elias both played solid games. Points in the paint were the difference. Rob did not seem as hesitant when he got the ball in the post. Still has a problem with turnovers but improving. Also liked how he kicked to ball out on the double team.
Shooting 57% from the field is positive with a solid defensive team like Illinois. Also great scoring balance from the starters. Bench scoring was almost non-existent. Got to find an answer offensively at the point. Illinois was allowed to double Rob and leave Meech wide open, they new he wouldn’t take the jumper.
Any way big win for the Zags
Great win! I love these heart attack games. Goodson does make some mistakes, but the tie up in OT was a gritty move. Harris is a STUD. Sacre looked like a real center today. Bouldin and Grey made plays when it counted. If being a Zag is not giving up, winning pretty or ugly, then this team is the closest thing to “Zags of old” we have seen in awhile.
Nice start to the New Year!
What a sweet win. Not happy with losing a 21 point lead but, way to pull one out on the road in O.T.! These kind of games will help make us battle tested for the Tourney. Nothing will rattle us.
Knowing that we lost Pargo, Daye, Heytvelt, and Downs did anyone really think we would be 11-3 right now with wins over Colorado, Wisconsin, Cincinati, WSU, Davidson, Oklahoma, and Ilinois??
What a terrific start! Bring on the W.C.C.
I agree with gaz-tastic!
With the seniors lost from last year and Austin to the NBA, it’s almost remarkable that we would be standing at 11-3 and nationally ranked at this moment of the season! I was as upset as any of you after we lost that 21 point lead in this game and thought the worse when we were down 8 in the 2nd half, but this team was scrappy and never gave up! That’s what I love about this team….their inensity. We lost that during the Duke game, but there is no doubt in my mind that they won’t do that again. I thought the defense was solid in the last 8-10 minutes of the game and the rebounding intense. My hat’s off the Elias Harris, who played a great game and came up with big play after big play. I also thought Rob Sacre looked so solid and was money at the free throw line again tonight. It seemed that Matt was hesitant to shoot after missing badly on a few shots early in the game, but he didn’t disappear and started making some plays in the end. What can you say about Steven……the guy is so smooth with or without the ball and he’s a team player. I wish he were a bit more selfish, but that’s not him. As hot as he was early on, I would have been jacking it up from all over the court, but he always puts the team first. This was a great win and great way to enjoy a Saturday afternoon watching Gonzaga basketball! BTW, my sincere thanks to Philly Zag for expediting the game on justin.tv. We had the UCLA/Arizona game here in our area. Obviously the game to watch was the Illinois/Gonzaga game!
Player of the game...Harris
Haven’t heard…was there an official player of the game? Elias Harris came through when we needed something to go our way. I said (to him through the tv) with 3 minutes left in overtime – ok comeon Harris, time to step in and take control. Little did I know that he was thinking the same thing!
Absolutely Harris. Should be unanimous.
The Slipper Still Fits - SB Nation's home for the Gonzaga Bulldogs!
We almost always lose this type of game (where we jump out to a big lead only to blow it).
So I’m really glad we pulled it out. Other thoughts:
1. Meech really needs to play less. I’d say he’s either our 7th or 8th best player. You can basically tell right away if he’s gonna have a good game and if he’s not working early he needs to get the hook.
2. On the flip side, Manny needs to play more, especially when we can’t get a stop. Sacre and Harris were STRUGGLING with D down the stretch in the 2nd half and when they don’t have a punishing big man he could be a defensive sub for one of them.
3. Why Mark Few didn’t call a timeout with 7 seconds left and the ball in a tie is beyond me. You know Meech isn’t gonna pass there, and while he made the shot in the tourney, he’s the last guy you want shooting that.
pass ahead to gray
I agree, he should have passed down to Gray instead of taking it up himself. A pass is faster than a dribble, plus Gray can either shoot, drive or pass. Much better choice I think, plus Gray has better decision making skills than Meech.
I'm glad he didn't call a TO actually
Mark Few’s late game style is to really let his team decide the game. He’s never been a real good in-game play caller in terms of setting players up and stopping the flow with seven seconds is hard for a coach to do.
I agree that Meech’s shot was terrible and you could tell when he left his feet he had no clue what to do. He’ll learn from it and move on. I just really enjoy the positives that he has with his grit and tough defense. He must have hit the deck 10 times today.
Offense will be a struggle but I think people really expect too much from Meech. He’s only started 14 games as a Zag and is still learning how to run the offense. He was a drive first player in high school and he’s playing a much different style at Gonzaga than he’s used to.
He’ll figure it out and we need him to because he’s a huge piece of this teams future. It’s obvious that Few has little trust in GJ right now and something is up with Gibbs so he’s the present and the future.
The Slipper Still Fits - SB Nation's home for the Gonzaga Bulldogs!
Gibbs, Meech
I wonder if Gibbs is injured. The past 2 games he was wearing a different type shirt than the rest of the bench….
End of the game pass it up court and let Gray make the decision. Meech was thinking about his hero play last March. Hopefully the coaches keep working with him.
I understand that philosophy, and agree that Few isn't much of a playcaller.
That said, did ANY of us not know that once Meetch got it he that wasn’t giving it up? He’s so easy to read like that (GJ is actually worse at this, and Pargo essentially founded a school of it when he was here). If we could react enough to pull a Shia LeBeouf and scream "No no no no no!!!’ as it was happening, Few should see it too and call a timeout.
I agree that people probably expect too much of Meech, mostly because of how great his buzzer beater was last year, but it’s hard to imagine many folks expected this little of him.
I understand not having confidence in GJ and agree that Gibbs must be nursing an injury or something, but the notion that those are the only (or best) two guys to replace him with is, in my opinion, misguided. The player we should talk about putting in his place is Manny. Look, we have our best PG in Bouldin and another completely capable ball handler in Gray. There is absolutely no reason we couldn’t go with a bigger, clearly better defensive (and I actually think better offensive) lineup featuring Manny over Meech.
The ‘Few not a good play caller’ card is pretty hard to play in this one when Few called TO and set up the play that won GU the game. Actually, I think he’s a fantastic play caller who has an inexplicable inability to (usually) get his players a good play at the end of the game. The team almost always scores out of time-outs. That, to me, signals a good play caller.
Ummm...I always hate to play this card, but clearly you don't watch enough...
A) They don’t always get good plays at the end of the game and…
B) They DEFINITELY don’t “almost always” score out of time-outs. In fact they quite rarely do.
Apparently we’re watching different games. Obviously time-outs are called for different reasons and not every one is to set up a play, but when there is a play to be set up the Zags score off it (or at least get the shot they want out of it) most of the time. Especially this season (in most games), which as been impressive considering the youth IMO.
In the past, in end-of-game-situations, with Pargo especially, I’d agree that the team rarely did well. Everybody always knew what was coming. This season it’s been different and a lot better
EDZ, ZB I read your comments on Matt's game!
44minutes, 8-16 50%, 9 rebounds, 7 assists, 18 points 5 to’s! Along with"E" took over the game and hit key shots and made good passes and got key rebounds. Well?
Mike- As a former coach
You know as well as I do that in basketball, stats can be horribly misleading. Over the course of the second half, Matt made some truly poor decisions with the basketball both with passing and scoring the ball. If he was a freshman or sophomore, Id be ok with that, but as the senior leader, he needs to be a steady force when momentum is starting to change. Also, I know that defense is not his forte, but Matt left his man open on two key three’s during that same stretch. Did he hit big shots towards the end of the game…absolutely. Do I want the ball is Elias’ hands at the end of the game….absolutely.
Final 4 or bust
Matt
Kinda what I expected. It’s usually better to watch it for the 45 minutes vs 10, 4-5 minute spurts. You’ll see more. Maybe learn more! Great game Matt!
Matt almost lost the game for us with some bad TOs, but he also won it for us. I realize that Harris made the winning shot, but Bouldin’s play down the stretch got us to that position (particularly the 3-pter to tie it in OT). From having the coldest of cold shooting he pretty much willed himself to make some big shots down the stretch and stopped turning it over which led to us being in position for Harris to win it.
Few
I have one question to ask, why didn’t anybody foul on the last Illinois possesion of regulation. We were in a 1-1 situation so they get at most 2 free throws in a two point game. Instead they give up a shot at a wide open three. Did Few want the foul or is he against the foul in that situation philosophically or something?
Great Question
I think we had a foul to give at that point, but I could be wrong. It’s possible he just didn’t want to risk one of our players fouling them when they’re behind the three point line and royally screwing things up, but I doubt it. I’ve always found that method a little cheap, but it would have made strategic sense.
Zagnificent - GU Class of 2011
Actually I think we were up 3 at the end of regulation
Which makes your point even more valid.
Postgame thoughts
There are a few things that I really did not like about our play in this game. First of all, Bol got plenty of time, but not enough good looks. He has trouble making his own shot and needs to practice driving the lane more often and shaking his defender to get an open shot. If we don’t specifically run plays that get him open looks, he struggles to score and get comfortable from the field. Also, Kelly saw way too much playing time and reverted to some of his bad habits, which included turning the ball over and taking bad fouls. I would really like to see Manny come off the bench before Kelly on a consistent basis. Most notably, our turnover issues resurfaced themselves as we lost our groove and started to get lazy. While Meech is partly to blame for this, everyone is at fault. Our passing was sloppy and our ball control was simply embarrassing at times. We beat Oklahoma and got our huge lead against Illinois because we executed our passes and worked hard on both ends of the court. If we can do this for a full 40 minutes, I like our odds against most teams.
While there were some negatives from this game, there were also some positives. Rob is developing and learning to deal with the double team much better. I only recall one or two turnovers on his behalf, which is acceptable in my opinion given how many touches he gets and the traffic he finds himself in. Also, his free-throw shooting was AMAZING! I really developed confidence in his play this game. And of course, Harris is the piece that makes our front court truly spectacular. His deadly three point shooting and dominating drives as well as his post play make him the second most complete player on our team (behind Bouldin). He is a truly special player that is now on everyone’s radar.
Zagnificent - GU Class of 2011
I think Rob
had 2 or 3 TO’s after coming down with offensive rebounds. Good news/bad news.
Rob
I though he played an overall good game today. He was a force down low and seemed to be able to score almost at will, but there continues to be a point of concern for me with Rob. He is a BAD rebounder. In this game, he played equal minutes as Elias, but only had 3 total rebounds while Elias had 16. From what i can see, he just doesn’t seem to want the ball as much as the other players on the court. With his size, he should easily average 8 to 10 rebounds a game, if not more. I don’t know if he just gets in bad position down low or what, but he needs to find a way to improve on the boards. He also seems to struggle with just catching the ball on the rebound. There have been many times where the ball just goes right through his hands. If he can become more of a rebounding force, i think this team will really benefit.
by D-Cheney on Jan 2, 2010 4:39 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Some of you have said
that Coach Few lets his team play at the end of games, like that’s his style. Well, he called a timeout with less than 30 seconds left in the OT and I thought that was a briliant move. First, it gave the guys a blow and let them calm down. Second, and most important, he drew up a play that would get the ball in Harris’ hands for the shot to take the lead. He trusted a FRESHMAN with that shot, but he knew what Elias was capapble of. Harris didn’t dissapoint. He took it to the hoop strong, NBA style.
I was reading some of the comments from Illinois fans on ESPN and they claimed that when their big guy, Keller, got going then our front court was ineffective and might as well not have been on the court. Here’s my reply: Harris, 19 points; Sacre, 19 points. I don’t call that ineffective.
Tom117
Elias Harris is so sick
But why in Gods name does Rob Sacre have such a hard time passing out of a double team.
I love the minutes Will Foster gave us off the bench in the Oklahoma game, really encouraging for when Rob gets doubled every time and picks up stupid fouls early.
Being a Zag fan is taking years off my life.
Only wanted to add a couple thoughts. Few should have called a timeout and set up a play at the end of regulation, period. While Zach B may argue his style is to let the team win or lose it at the end of the game, that has rarely worked for us. Drawing up a winning play at the end of the game is what great college coaches do, then great players finish. But, at least we know what to expect from Few I guess.
We also should have fouled, that was a great point. I know the argument about it being a cheap way to win, but it’s called strategy, and I won’t lose any sleep winning a game like that. But if we’re not going to foul, then don’t let them get an open 3. As well as Harris played today, he didn’t stay with his man and let him get the wide open shot to sent it to OT. After that first miss, he stayed down low and made no attempt to find his man. As much as I think he is way better than Daye and am worried he is not going to be around next year, Harris does not have the defensive package yet. While Daye was really soft, he still had the length to block someone’s shot even if he was sagging off. My selfish hope is that Harris takes another year to work on his D before going pro. But man, he is an animal, and I am fine with him taking the last shot.
While Meech has great heart, successful college teams in March need outstanding point guards, and Meech isn’t. He is fast as hell and mixes it up, but constantly is out of control on offense, makes bad decisions, and is not a threat shooting beyond 15 feet. Unfortunately, I feel like he’s a liability on the court.
Kelly, love his heart too, but I agree, played too much. He makes freshman mistakes, lots of them, which is okay in games where we can afford to let him make them. That wasn’t today.
Rob did well today, but completely agree with the comments about his rebounding. 10 boards a game should be no problem for him. I did think he did a BETTER job of passing out of the double team today, but yeah, still needs work.
I am still lost when it comes to what is going through Few’s mind with the rotation. I just don’t understand it. Some players get pulled after making one mistake, and others are allowed to play after making one poor decision after another. Some players are pulled when they’re in a rhythm, others aren’t given enough time to find a rhythm. (Sidenote: did anyone see Gibbs’ tweet after Oklahoma…“Not a minute” What’s going on there? I know he’s a backup to Matt/Steven, but I’d rather have him or Manny in there instead of Meech)
We seem to really get shaken and lose confidence easily, and it takes too long to regain composure. That may be because we are a young team, but that will have to change by March. Great way to dig in and pull the win out today though, hopefully our guys will find their individual consistency during conference play.
Go Zags
if i remember correctly
…wake forest fouled us while up 3 points late in the game, in the backcourt, in order to avoid us tying via a 3-pointer. cheap or not, i believe it’s the right thing to do while up 3 points.
This is not a play Few favors
Coach Few has addressed this in the past. He has his reasons for not fouling.
You ain’t going to see this happen in his life time.
mjc
mjc
whether he likes it or not, i’m still going to disagree with him that it’s better to let them play it out. whether you’re making the argument that ’few’s the coach so i trust him’ or ’he’s said it’s never gonna happen so stop dreaming’, i’m don’t agree with just ‘trusting’ what decisions are made.
if you have a high percentage chance to keep your opponent from attempting a game tying shot, i think you take it.
Completely agree. When people look back at games, it doesn’t matter if it was by one point or by 20, they see either a win or a loss. I’ll just have to accept that even though I want a coach to take us to the final four, we’re not gonna get one until maybe Few decides to retire. And even though we think they should have used a solid strategy to win the game, because Few doesn’t like it, we’re not gonna see that either.
Good call. Clearly Few never has any kind of strategy and really only holds the players back from achieving their full potential. It’s too bad we’re stuck with him as a coach because he’s got to be the worst coach among just about any from the BCS leagues and even the WCC. If only we could shell out the bucks for a real coach we’d have already gone to the FF every year for the last six or so. If only Few would do things he doesn’t like! Oh well.
Wow, not even worth a response, but here you go anyway. I like coach Few, as a guy and as a mid-major coach. My problem with him is that he has this complex where everyone thinks he’s a top national coach. Definitely for the WCC he is great. I don’t think we’ll ever see a FF under him. We had some great plays out of time-outs yesterday, first time I’ve seen that multiple times in a game. That doesn’t mean he’s a terrific play caller. He’s a system coach that doesn’t do well at adapting in a game. If we weren’t in the WCC, he’d have a much different reputation. Disagree with this all you want, but save this kind of a response for GUBoards.
Few is the entire reason that GU is a program vs a team like George Mason or Davidson that got it’s time in the spotlight and then faded. He’s built GU into a program and has kept the overall talent level continually increasing. Portraying him as a cute little mid-major guy done well who can’t run with the big BCS programs is a disservice to Few and the program. It’s also pretty contrary to reality.
by Nevtelen on Jan 4, 2010 10:18 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Goodson
I know that he young but Goodson just may be the downfall of the Zags this season. He needs to cut down turnovers. To only average one assist a game is not cutting at all. Going into the game today he has three more turnovers than assist. When he is in the game it is four on five on the offensive end. He’s great on ball defender and has a lot of room to grow, but for now he is killing the them with TO’s and and lack of a offensive game.
Excstatic, frustrated, thrilled, thankful
Excellent game, for the first 15 & last 15 minutes,
I’m sure we all gave the Zags the broadcaster curse, whe we noticed that the Bulldogs had ZERO TOs12-13 minutes into the game…lol.
Mr. Harris was clutch as was Mr. Boldin when needed his last two three’s were perfect timing, Mr. Gray was lights out the first ten minutes, Mr. Sacre was solid the whole game, although his 3 secs was one of thekey TOs in Illinois’ comeback, ( it seems either Rob or Elias turns the ball over 1-3 a game with their 3secs or traveling).
When it comes to footwork Mr. Olynyk plays with solid fundamentals as well as good passes, he does tend to make freshman plays on defense though. Rob and Elias had some smooth passes as well especially on some cuts by Steve, Kelly & Matt.
Mr. Goodsen plays great defense and dribbles the well when he is not out of control. He needs to allow his basketball game catch up to his athletic speed.
We need not only more assists and far less TO’s from Meech we also need more consistent FTs as opponents will just contnue to knock him to the floor at 50-60% from the charity stripe from our PG position.
Mr. Foster has earned more playing time, in fact I would like to see him start over Meech vs. WCC teams that do not apply full court pressure.
Meaning we play Ellias at SF/wing & Sacre at PF.
The excellent passing we see is what makes the TOs so frustrating espicially the ones where we (no not a player just a fan,hell I even just graduated from Whitworth) are passing the ball to some just three small steps away or eleven inches closer to the basket when the player already has an open look INSIDE the Key.
Of course this team is starting the new decade just like the last one went all ten years, and we are starting only one senior, Mr. Boldin and one junior, Mr. Gray, two sophmores, Mr. Sacre & Mr. Goodsen with just about as much experience as our freshman, Mr. Harris & Co. our entire bench w/ the exception of the senior, Mr. Foster are freshamn thisincludes Mr. Arop becoming a fan favorite in the mold of Mr. Turiaf & Mr. Pendegraft but with thepotential for a more complete game , Mr. Kong who could become the best 3ptr in Zags history (and needs to develop the rest of his game- his D is reminiscent of Mr. Morrison’s), and Mr. Olynyk who plays like Mr. Walton (yes that one) one minute and a recent HS graduate the next, and finally with Mr. Vilarino & Mr. Gibbs who have made some contributing plays in the early part of the season and the redshirt freshman.
yes I know this is a long post, so I shall end with…
Finally, I want that 10th consecutive WCC (regular season) conference title; and another sweet sixteen or elite eight appearance, but especially the 10th consecutive WCC title.
Where is the post ...
… making fun of UW for losing big to Oregon?
It's Right Here.
Oregon beat both Washington Lack-10 schools this week. Hahahaahahahaha.
Got a question for Zach or whoever
With just over 12 minutes in the second half with the score 58-56, Illinois, Mcabey missed his shot, Davis followed with a dunk on the rebound but there was a foul away from the ball in the corner prior to the bucket. My understanding was that the basket would not count. In fact it was scored a basket and Illinois got the ball back on their end and of course immediately scored. Zags down 6. What am I missing?
Seriously
I didn’t understand it either, but it was counted. The foul called on Gray for pushing on the rebound was called clearly before the put back. You can only score and keep possession on a technical I thought (or if they were in bonus then would get FT’s, which wasn’t the case). Some other very questionable calls during the game. Seemed like the crowd was dictating some of the refs’ actions. While we got away with a couple small things, I really questioned a lot of calls that game.
So you saw it too?
Anybody else see that? I spent 5 minutes screaming at my TV.
I Noticed
I questioned why they never took the two points back off the score and still do. In a game so close, that really could have spelled disaster for us. I assumed that they thought the foul was after the basket was made, which it clearly wasn’t. But even in that case it’s still a foul away from the ball and should have been Zags ball because the Zags hadn’t taken possession of the ball. Unless I’m missing something, the refs need to have their mental competency checked.
Zagnificent - GU Class of 2011
confusing
I agree…that confused the hell outta me…the points clearly should have been taken off, and why it didn’t happen made no sense to me whatsoever.
so am I right in my interpretation?
Either the bucket counted and Zag ball or did not count and Illinois ball?
As far as I know...
either the foul is before the shot, the basket is waived off, and Illinois gets the ball out of bounds or the foul is during the shot, the basket counts, and Illinois gets an and 1 free throw. Either way, if the basket counted, the refs screwed up. (At least, I know this is the rule in the NBA. Are NCAA rules different on this point?)
If the foul was after the shot was taken the Refs got it right
Sorry I don’t recall the exact sequence of this any more but . . .
If a foul is committed — not involving the shooter - AFTER the ball is released -
The shot counts if it is good. Then the foul is assessed and the appropriate penalty is assessed. You could get a 5 point play out of this.
Stop and think about it. If it was any other way, if a three point shot looks like it is going in at the end of a game that might beat you, you just foul a poor free throw shooter away from the ball (so the shot doesn’t count if it goes in) and he gets to shoot two? It would be the ultimate safety valve at the end of every game. Certainly not something we would want to see on a regular basis.
mjc
good win
Good win and excellent week for the Zags. Continue to play well and maybe we’ll have a good run in March. Can’t play in Spokane, but San Jose would be nice, if we can get a high enough of a seed.
Besides Washington, UNLV and New Mexico, what are the best western teams in college hoops this year?
Josh Normand
Well us (of course) and St. Mary's.
But that’s about it. Maybe Portland, but they’ve struggled after the hot start. The west is WEAK.
Bucket counted
I just “rewatched” the Illinois game and the refs did indeed award the basket as the player was in the act of shooting as the foul occurred. The foul was for contact away from the ball. Therefore, the shot counted and the ball was awarded to IL for the foul. Points scored (2 pts) were never subtracted at any time thereafter. Mark Few wasn’t pleased with the call, but I think it was the correct call.
I think Zags are hitting their stride…and while not running like a V-12 tuned Ferrari, I might compare them to a finely engineered Porsche GT2 (aka German influence) that just made the border run via Canada at a very quick clip. Hope the pun wasn’t that bad.
I’ve got tickets to the Zags vs Gaels game Jan 14, and hope to see a great Zags effort and most especially to see Sacre/Foster/Olynyk shut down “Green Eggs and Ham” (aka Omar Samhan).
Cheers
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