Biggest Questions of the Summer: What should we expect from Rob Sacre?
by Max Mandel on Aug 2, 2009 11:04 AM PDT
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One of the huge benefits of the State of Gonzaga chat was being able to discuss the biggest question marks that hang over the upcoming season of Gonzaga basketball. Today, we are kicking off a series in which we will do our best to answer these huge questions that the team faces heading into next year. Obviously, many of the questions wont be answered until the entire team is on campus together and competition begins, but being able to speculate on topics is the best part of the Summer. In Part II of this series, we will look at the question of Who should we expect from Rob Sacre?
It's hard for me to remember any individual player who drew such contrasting expectations from Gonzaga fans then Rob Sacre. Guys like Austin Daye and Jeremy Pargo might have caused a divide because of their attitudes or style of play, but for the most part, people shared similar expectations for both. However, as evidenced in our chat last week, people have very different expectations for Rob Sacre this upcoming season. Some fans seem to think that Rob will never be much of an offensive threat, and that this might open up the door for a guy like Sam Dower to come in and contribute immediately. Others seem to think that Rob will have a breakout season, and be a double-double kind of player throughout the remainder of his offensive career. At this point, I personally fall in the middle of the two ideas, yet I think that is perfect for what the team will need for Rob this upcoming season.
In order to have proper expectations for Rob next season, it's important to understand exactly what type of role he will have. Unless Coach Few puts out a very strange lineup, Rob will always be behind Matt, Steven, Elias, and Bol as an option in the offense. This isn't necessarily a knock on Rob, but instead focuses on the fact that Gonzaga will have numerous guys who can score the basketball at any given time on the court. With this established, it's fair to assume that Rob will likely be at best, the 3rd scoring option when he is on the court, and more often than not, the 4th option. Equally important is the fact that Rob has yet to demonstrate what type of offensive threat he can be. With Josh, you had a 6'11 guy that liked to float to the perimeter, and had his greatest success as a face-up big. Going back to J.P Batista, who was arguably the best Gonzaga post scorer I have sees, he had his success as a back to the basket big. What this shows is that both styles of play can have success in the flex offense, and the quicker that Rob establishes himself, the more success he will be able to have.
At this point, I think it's fair to assume that Rob is likely to be more of a back to the basket type big. However, for him to succeed on the offensive end, there needs to be a huge growth in the quickness that he makes his move in the post, as well as a genuine improvement in his hands. One of the must frustrating aspects of watching Rob as a freshman was that he would miss a chance to score, because instead of immediately making a move when receiving the ball, he would instead slow down and think about what he was doing. While that probably worked in British Columbia, that immediately makes you an offensive liability at the DI level. Since he hadn't played against top competition for over a year (Rob was part of a tournament with the Canadian National Team this summer), I have to believe that this is something that has been addressed. In no way does Rob have to become J.P. Batista Part II (although if he does, you are looking at a top 5 pick), but he must be enough of a threat with his back to the basket that he can keep the defenders honest.
As strange as it may sound, Rob can easily average 13-15 points with one go-to post move. With guys like Meech, Matt, Steven, Bol, GJ, and Manny out on the perimeter, Gonzaga will have one of its best slashing teams in recent memory. Therefore, Rob should get numerous open looks from when a guy like Meech attacks the paint and draws away Rob's defender. All that leaves for Rob is the need to catch the ball, and finish at the rim with a vicious dunk. It's reasonable to think that Rob should get 6-8 points a game just from catching passes in the paint from slashing guards. If we take the lesser number I just suggested, that puts Rob at an easy six points per game. Another area where Rob can convert easy buckets is on the offensive glass. Even in limited minutes, Rob has shown that he is a terrific rebounder and competitor in the post. Over the course of 25-28 minutes per game, Rob should be able to pull down a handful of offensive rebounds. In doing so, it's reasonable to think that he can score four points per game just from put-backs and tips on the offensive glass. That immediately puts Rob in double figures without even taking in to account the points he should score from the free throw line very night, as well as the numbers he can get from having an established post move. It's not unreasonable to think that Rob could average around 15 points, to go along with what should be 7-10 rebounds per game.
Those might seem like incredibly lofty expectations for a guy that has yet to prove much at this level. However, all that it takes for Rob is be successful with this team is the ability to finish the easy looks he will get, and the energy and hustle to do the dirty work on the the glass. Honestly, I even found myself a little bit surprised as I began to add up the numbers that I thought Rob could have, but it seems to me that it would take an epic collapse on the part of Rob NOT to put together a double-double nearly every time he steps foot on the court.
What do you guys think? Have I put too much expectations on Rob? Am I making too much of the easy looks he will get from our guards?
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My concerns
To be honest, I don’t think any of us really know what kind of basketball player Rob Sacre is. Because of the injuries and minimal playing time, I think Rob is going to need time just to get his feel for the game back. He hasn’t really had a good, consecutive stretch of games played in quite some time and missing all that time with injuries means that he is going to be rusty come game time no matter how healthy he is over the summer and before the season. Practice and games are two very very different situations. I can’t imagine Rob scoring 15 a night but I think you are right about his rebounding prowess…that is one thing I do remember.
What I really hope the staff is working on is just toughening him up as a total player. This probably has to do with the fact that he was a freshman but I’m sure we all remember Rob exhibiting the classic “stone hands” from time to time. He struggled with handling the entry pass from the guards and also showed weak hands when he got rebounds or a pass down low. Hopefully his turnovers are reduced because with the youth that we have in 2009-10, we can not afford to have Rob, who is a now a vet and leader on this team, turn the ball over constantly. Just can’t happen.
I’m more worried about that kind of stuff at this point rather than his point output. Anything Rob gives us over 6-8 points is a bonus in my book until I understand his role on this team and his abilities as a player. He’s obviously got the size and strength but we’ll see about the mental toughness and that sort of thing.
And oh yeah, please stay healthy!
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Rob
I’m more in line with BZ on this. Rob is the focus point all year long IMO. If he’s in foul trouble or doesn’t perform his established role, we’re in trouble on the floor against big strong teams, which are usually what we face outside the WCC. We can get away with the slash and burn play W/O defense in the WCC but not outside or in the NCAA. I’m still baffled by this blog’s focus on the perimeter players. We are soooooo weak at the inside vs. last year. We lost our 3-4-5 starters! Andy is a Frosh, Sam is a true Frosh, KO will probably redshirt. That my friend’s leaves ROB! I truely believe the season hinges on his performence. I do believe he’s got the talent to develop post moves. Simple ones, even a drop step either way with step back shot as an alternative. I taught these to 14-17 yearolds in HS. Rob is going to have a very good year this year. He’s capable of some 20’s but will more than likely be 7-15 with 7-10 boards. I saw some post moves Rob did in HS without thinking that just drove the defender into the baseline and Rob just slammed it home! I agree about the stone hands though. I called them Deer Paw’s but I think that was just nerves and remember that was 2 years ago. I like the kid and believe he could be better than JP in the post but only to 15 feet.
Rob's Development
One thing you cannot coach is “7’” that is God given; however, for him to be a big factor on offense, he must have developed foot work! If his foot work has not gotten any better than his freshman year, then he will not be an offensive factor. He has very good hands for a post player but must develop foot work. That is the problem with Josh and Foster as well, no natural foot work. To be a post player with your back to the basket, you must feel natural in pivoting either left or right foot. If he does not feel comfortable doing either then don’t expect much offensively, when he is passed the ball on the “block!” If he has, then he could easily be a double-digit scorer ala Bryant but really be a force on the boards and defense. Oh, defensively he needs to have also learned to stay on his feet and wait for the offensive player to jump first. In fact, he needs to understand that he doesn’t need to try and block every shot but with him playing “smartly” in that he doesn’t jump but rather obtain strong defensive position, will make him be that dominant defensive presence. HE IS NOT A SHOT BLOCKER as he takes too long to get off of his feet.
Time will tell if he has progressed as we all hope he has…IMHO he is the key factor in the post…Andy will also have an impact and believe he has pretty decent foot work. Don’t know about Sam, but he likes to go to the boards and that also cannot be taught, it is an instinct. If Rob is capable offensively, then that will opens up more scoring opportunities for the 1, 2, 3 and 4 positions. Meech will have a field day on driving and them dumping to Rob/Andy/Sam and Will.
Let’s keep our hopes up re: Rob’s development. I look forward to him being healthy and being a force down low.
I patiently await the upcoming season…but not to patiently…my nails are already pretty short…
Sacre in the Post!
I think you may be over analyzing here.
Sacre’s athletic ability, intellegence and mobility are unquestioned. You can gripe about his attitude but . . . in his first season, he knew he wasn’t going to get a lot of minutes and accepted that role graciously.
Now he’s the ‘man’ — I think you will see a whole new side of Rob — ‘the monster of the midway’. Give the coaching staff some credit too. They have taken some players with limited skills and over time, created some very fine big men. Turiaff comes to mind.
My concerns are how well he recovers from his injury. We all saw the trouble similar problems caused for Heyfeldt and there are more than a couple NBA big men (Odom for one) that have trouble holding up over an entire season. Seems as the pace of the game picks up, basketball is getting to be more of a 6’4" to 6’9" kind of game. If you can get a big man that can survive the torrid pace of todays game, that is something very special.
Finally, comparisons to Batista at this point in time aren’t fair. J.P. came to Gonzaga as a Junior with a very fine skill set. Rob arrived right out of high school. Any high school player is going to have some problems adjusting to D-1.
I am more than a little optomistic about Rob’s future. I see Gonzaga doing a lot more inside out offense in the half court. This will cause all kinds of nightmares for our opponents and will provide Rob with an opportunity to hone his game and gain confidence.
Did you see someone ranked us 34 the other day?!?!?!
How soon they forget!
mjc
mjc
How's his jumper
Anyone know if Rob’s worked on his jump shot? I don’t think I’ve ever seen him score outside the paint save for free throws. Would love for him to develop that shot. BUT first things first. As mentioned, the stone-hands (IMO) are his biggest liability. If he has improved in that area, I think he’ll be fine. We have a bruiser that knows how to use his body. I feel confident he will bring a post move or two to the dance floor. BUT his inexperience could hurt. He really hasn’t seen the floor much while at GU. Sure he started many games his frosh year, but he wasn’t a true starter (Kuso was, but preferred coming off the bench.). If he can translate his development to live games, I think we’ll be pleasantly suprised. Of course, he will need the support of Poling, Harris and others to provide some relief/assistance.
Go Rob and Go Zags!!!
All good points.
I am happy we will have a big man in the post. While JH’s post moves were fantastic when they were on, his tendency to float around (as you pointed out) the perimeter really hindered our ability to rebound, which I felt was constantly brought up as one reason for losing close games or keeping teams in games which should have been blow outs. I am not worried about Sacre floating around like Josh did and if he can stay low with the quickness of Meech and Matt with the ball, good things will happen.
Another point of concern is the fast style of play on offense. How many times did we see JH beat everyone down the court looking for the outlet pass for two quick points (although, his tendency to float around the top of the key may have given him a slight advantage). If Sacre can keep up with the offense, I am not worried at all. He doesn’t need to have the same success Josh did on fast breaks (it would be nice though) but as long as he doesn’t play half court ball like we sometimes see from Foster I am not worried. Go Zags!
The Man eats too many nachos
So I travel from Missoula to attend most games and this is how I view the guy—— too many times I saw him goofing off or disinterested on the bench last year during and before games—- I sit in the 7th row behind the bench and was amazed that the guy was not more into the games during timeouts instead of learnin he was checkin out the ladies and just dazing off— He did seem to like nachos though as almost everygame he seem to be slammin them down instead of pumpin his guys up in pregame—- he just does not seem to have the monster killer instinct you see from others—- he looks just happy being 7 feet——-if this guy has a heart change then I can see something but from my view he needs a good ace whoopin—- but then who is gonna do that Big Will Foster? We are right to have a lot of questions about this—- actually lets get ahold of him and have him read this and respond!!!
Jason Vanderwall
I Disagree
Rob is probably the most upbeat, energetic, and positive person on Gonzaga’s bench. I don’t watch his facial expressions or where he is looking during timeouts but I know before the games he is out there with the team cheering them on during warmups and he is typically the first guy off the bench yelling and having fun. He’s just a happy guy and I think his energy is a real asset to the team. I’ve seen him every game for the past two years and have never had a problem with his demeanor at all. There are a lot of players that should take some of Rob’s energy and put it to use.
He also plays with a lot of passion and is VERY demonstrative on the court. I think that will be huge with this young team.
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Rob is not the answer
reading vandyman’s response sums up Rob perfectly – having class with him I saw first-hand that he is not motivated and does nothing but joke around. Seeing him on the court he has a million dollar body for a post player but has no hands and no knack for the game – 2 things that cannot be taught! Even if he does score a few put backs or free throws, we’ll lose more points than he scores since he is not quick or physical on D and turns the ball over constantly with those hands of his – again- not having a knack for the game – with those guys slashing all the time like everydayezag said – he will have to be anticipating passes at all times… a lot of the times i watched him play, austin or pargo would find a whole in the defense, dump it off to him and then he’d turn it over b/c he wasn’t expecting a pass…. I know that the coaches are awesome, and will help some, but some things can’t be taught and I’m not sure if he’s willing to try and learn what can be taught.
Who or what combination is the answer?
Interesting points. I had a young man in HS that had the “Deer Paws” and “apparent no knack for the game”. It took from his Soph. year to his Senior year but he did get better. I agree with your statement on Rob 2 years ago but your premise of “2 things that cannot be taught” was certainly not valid with the young man I coached in HS. Maybe your frustration with Rob is like mine, but lets see what he does this year. Remember this is only his second year of D-1 hoops. I can tell you that I spent hours in the gym with kids saying. “A body like Hercules and the motivation of a rock!” Now put Pendo’s desire in Rob and……………………….lol, I get your point but let’s just give him a chance to perform in his role. By the way, BZ and EDZ, MidwestZag’s observations are why Im still a “post” guy for recruiting!
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