LIVE THREAD: Discuss the State of Gonzaga Hoops!
by Zach Bell on Jul 27, 2009 6:00 PM PDT
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PrintCan Robert Sacre be the answer in the middle? Does he have a post move? Will Steven Gray be aggressive this year? Can Matt Bouldin be a STAR? Can Demetri Goodson be electric for 30-35 minutes a game? When was the last time anyone actually saw Gran Gibbs and Andy Poling play basketball?
See...we are 80ish days away from any sort of college basketball and the questions are already piling up.
Let's have a discussion.
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This should be fun
Looking forward to hearing what everyone has on their mind about Gonzaga basketball
Final 4 or bust
I put up a Mike Vick twitter comment that should attract some
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I think before we delve into recruiting
We should discuss the upcoming season, as I have noticed that the starting lineup is something that has been a hot topic
Final 4 or bust
Starters
I still feel like every position except PF is somewhat concrete. What do you guys think?
I reallly want Poling to challenge Sacre.
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my take
PG- Meech/Vilarino/Gibbs
SG- Gray/Arop/Gibbs
SF- Bouldin/Kong/ Arop
PF- Harris/Dower
C- Sacre/Poling
Final 4 or bust
I am wondering where Sam Dower fits into the picture
I really like what I’ve read about him but haven’t seen him play. Has anyone here?
Dower is very skilled
However, my worry is how he will handle some of the stronger 4’s and 5’s his freshman year. He could be a candidate to redshirt if Foster and Harris really can contribute
Final 4 or bust
Havent heard much about Foster
Is he even in the picture to get some PT?
I think the staff would love that
If Will can contribute, that gives a great post rotation featuring Poling, Sacre, Foster, and Harris. This would give Sam a year to add strength to his frame, and maybe with a redshirt of Olynyk, do a strong job of staggering the classes for 09 and 2010
Final 4 or bust
He has to
We have no choice. But don’t expect him to get more than 10 mins or so. Sacre/Poling has to work. Elias Harris has to step up at PF too.
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Im just not comfortable with Poling and Sacre yet
Neither has proven anything in the past, and I don’t buy the argument that since Sacre started as a freshman he should be expected to dominate. And Poling has struggled with health issues, and I think he has a long way to go until he can be a consistent contributor
Final 4 or bust
I disagree about Sacre
Yes Sacre and Poling especially are pretty untried. But You have to like what the coaches are saying about Robertt, and inparticular coach rice the other night.
I like the optimism
but he has to prove something in games. The coaches are basing what they have seen in pickup basketball at camps and in drills. Rob needs to develop quickness and confidence to contribute in games
Final 4 or bust
The Zags will be young but deep
If there is strength in numbers, the Zags will be strong. I think this team will give Mark Few so many options, as he can play ten guys, with two lightning guys at the point.
Agree and Disagree
The depth is great, but we don’t know how many of these young guys can actually contribute…there are so many unproven guys that are needed to play at a high level fo r this team to be successful
Final 4 or bust
agreed!
the point guard position will be so great to watch and you have to rocks with Bouldin and Gray in the backcourt. I love our versatility.
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GJ will be huge
If he can give a Meech type freshman year this could be a very talented and deep team
Final 4 or bust
Can Steven Gray be a consistent stud?
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Of course
Steven is a junior this year, and it’s going to be a breakout year for him, I think like Ammo’s junior year was for him. Steven has all the moves. It’s his time.
Does he have the aggressive spirit?
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Hope so for Grey
We all saw what he could do in the UConn game. I think if he continues to drive that will really open up his outside game and defenders will have to play him for both the shot or drive, not just the shot
It's mental
If Steven can develop the mentality to be great and to go out there and dominate, well we all know he has the natural gifts to do so. However, some guys just dont have that mental makeup
Final 4 or bust
Agree. I was just thinking that too, everydayzag.
But I think the junior year is the key to develpment. Grey has been immature in some ways, but that should change this year I think. I just think he needs to become more of a scoring threat in all ways and not just a 3 pt shooter. His game has been limited in ways.
New Role
I agree, and I think Steven might benefit from being the #1 or #2 option next year, as opposed to the #4 or #5 option he was the past two years
Final 4 or bust
Unquestioned talent and remember when Jay Bilas said that Gray has as much raw talent and ability as any Zag and that included all the guys on that team last year.
That’s saying a long.
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What a terrific performance
Steven had against UConn, and that is why it is so frustrating to watch him struggle against inferior competition throughout the WCC season
Final 4 or bust
MEEEEECH
Do you think meech can go 30-35 mins per game with the same energy and intensity he had this last year?
Absolutely
I just love everything about Meech and his mental and physical makeup. I think growing up around football players, and with him being a football start in high school, Meech has that toughness and never quit mentality that will allow for him to give 30 minutes of tough and breakneck pace basketball
Final 4 or bust
I hope he can
Develop that pull up 8-12 footer, he did not want to shoot the J last year
by zagsfan4life on Jul 27, 2009 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Huge aspect of his improvement
Is that jumper you mentioned. We know he can finish at the rim at an extraordinary level. Now if he can add that quick pull up, and also develop a deep jumper to keep the defense honest…Meech could be so special
Final 4 or bust
YES!
And from all reports, GJ is going to be a great backup. I’m so pumped for the PG situation!
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GJ and Meech
The staff wants to find a way to play them together if possible.
That would be the quickest back court in the country
But with those two out there, are either GJ or Meech consistent scorers? I just drool at those two hounding guards up and down the court though
Final 4 or bust
GJ and Meech
Ultimitly (not this year), they will have to play together or they made a mistake bringing GJ in. I believe the staff thinks that GJ will be able to score. Not necessarily this year but without a doubt in the future.
Hey What about Matt
Now here is a story. Player of the year in WCC, possible All American HE and Grey are going to be a great duo.
Odds
Matt has got to have ridiculous odds to win the POY in the conference. And I think he will definitley win it but the key will be if he can do it EVERY night because stars do it every night and Matt can be a star
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Matt must be GREAT everynight
Matt can’t afford any poor performances this year. He is the guy that everyone will be looking to when the team is struggling, and he must play his best against the best teams on the schedule.
Final 4 or bust
Matt is definately
Our go to guy this year and I am looking forward to watching him win POY
by zagsfan4life on Jul 27, 2009 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Im watching Matt in the non-conference schedule
We all know what Matt will do against the WCC. The key to his legacy and the success next year is for him to be great against Duke, Wake Forest, the Maui field, and everyone else before WCC play
Final 4 or bust
I know what you mean
But he’s a Senior now. It’s really his time. He just needs more shots too. I hope he gets an average of 12 per game and sometimes 15. He and Grey need to shoot more, an lots, imo.
But remember
Matt has frustrated everyone before, each and every year. he has to be consistent or this will be an average team.
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Matt is now positioned to dominate
Few brought in GJ as a back-up to Meech so Matt won’t have to run the point (and got his 2010 PG a year early/and he was just too good to pass up), freeing him to be the natural 2 he is or a 3 when the many mismatches will occur. This is his team, and I expect him to dominate the WCC and hold his own in the OOC schedule.
Good topic/thread, fellas.
GO ZAGS!!!
I'm curious
what player do we all think will have the biggest impact next season? Like, who does gonzaga NEED?
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Harris and Sacre
If those two can play at a high level, this can be a Top 15 team….thats good I think Meech, Gray, and Bouldin can be. The success relies on what contribution we get from the 4 and 5 positions.
Final 4 or bust
Steven Grey
Matt’s a given. Steven has been absent in many games and even sat out much of last year. He really needs to mature and come out ready to play every night, score and be a leader.
One player
Who is gonna set the tempo for the entire team is Meech, he really needs to help Bouldin in controlling the offense, but I think it does come down to the production of our big men, which is a big question mark right now
by zagsfan4life on Jul 27, 2009 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Meech will also
You are right about the point guard at Gonzaga. They are the ONE who really makes it all go. But with Matt being a senior and a great passer, we may see Matt controlling the offense more than a true point. It will depend on the amount of turn overs Meech makes.
With Arop, Gibbs, and potentially Kong
even if Steven struggles, we will be strong at the wing position,
Final 4 or bust
See
I think it’s Rob because we just have NOTHING down low. What to do if Rob gets hurt or can’t score? That’s my worry.
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I dont expect much scoring from Rob
I think the key with Rob is that he is a dominant rebounder, and finishes the easy opportunities. I see scoring something like this
Meech- 9 PPG
Bouldin- 16 PPG
Gray- 18 PPG
Harris- 11 PPG
Sacre- 10 PPG
So 64 points a game from the starters, and another 15-20 from the bench on any given night
Final 4 or bust
18 from Gray??
I need to see it first.
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You are definitely right
he will be given every opportunity for that, but he must prove he can deliver
Final 4 or bust
I gotta go
Thanks for havin me guys, ill check back later
Sacre?
Of course Rob must have a very good season, and he MUST contribute both points and boards and blocks on D. But he will NOT be the main man, nor will he be needed to make the biggest impact.
Points not so much
As I mentioned earlier, I would be surprised if Rob took any shots that weren’t put backs on offensive boards, or open dunks after slashing moves by the wings. however, he must be the dominant rebounder and defensive player Josh wasn’t
Final 4 or bust
I hope he can do more
If that’s all he can do, everydayzag, I think we’re in trouble because he will just be another Kuso, who I loved, but who was not really the starting center GU needs.
I just don't think the team needs more
I think Rob can develop a post game over the next two years, but with the perimeter talent Gonzaga has, do we really need anymore offensively from Rob?
Final 4 or bust
I would be thrilled
if rob can deliver that, this team would have a chance to be very deep and special next year
Final 4 or bust
I am hoping too
That Rob can THRILL US. We need to see some great play coming from down low. We needs
omeone who plays with authority, and that’s going to be Rob.
I'm just worried about injury.
He’s been quite prone. We’re Gonzaga…someone’s bound to get hurt.
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It does seem like
every year someone gets hurt. I hope it’s not Rob or any of the starters this year. Please God!!!
Foreigners
I’ve seen Harris on Film and athletically he is the real deal. Only saw highlights but he looks like a player.
welcome!
Thanks for that.. we really think Harris can avoid the freshman growth period b/c of his history in German pro league
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He is incredibly athletic
and has great range for a guy his size. I think Elias will have to make an immediate contribution, and I think he is more than capable
Final 4 or bust
Does there play overseas transfer here to the usa
I mean will they fit into American style of basketball very quickly?
Sadly
no. Especially Kelly, Manny, and Bol. They need a grace period. And Reborn, I’m sure you saw on the GU boards that Elias really struggled with turnovers in the Germany league. He REALLY struggles with dribbling and ball handling and that will be an issue. He’s young but has such unlimited potential.
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With Elias
I have to believe it is a case of him bringing the ball down low and being stripped by the guards when he is in the post…this is something that can clearly be fixed working with the coaches
Final 4 or bust
I should teach him to shoot FT's
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Elias and Manny
Have played great basketball at the highest level of international competition for their respective age. However, I think Kelly still has a lot to prove
Final 4 or bust
I was really impressed with Arop this summer.
I was only reading the GUBoard about him, but I see things in my mind that I really like. I think he’s a born winner, and will make the biggest impact of the foreigners. It’s only a hunch, but a strong one.
Manny will be a pro
He has the length and athleticism to contribute immediately. He remains somewhat raw offensively, but he has so much quickness getting to the rim that he can contribute on offense
Final 4 or bust
Been doing BD stuff
Wow! lots of good stuff. Where do I begin? Matt…..Matt will do as well as the coaching staff lets him. Your points on his inconsistency are directly related to the staff and their style of coaching. Since this is an open discussion, i’ll put my 2 cents in on Matt. For 3 years this coaching staff went with the wrong player at the point. For the past 3 years they’ve tried to appease certain players and it cost them his development! Matt’s personality appears to be one of not telling others where and how HE wants them to play. That should have been addressed 3 years ago. Don’t expect too many changes in his style this year either. He’ll finish the season and get a shot at the Pro’s where they know how and what to get out of him. Sorry folk’s, as much as I love these coaches, they wasted 3 years on him. JMO
With Matt
and with guys like Meech, GJ, and Gibbs, you have four different guys who are comfortable bringing the ball up against pressure and initiating the offense. I think this is a huge benefit, and gives off great versatility between the group. However, I kind of cringe at the suggesting that Matt has been wasted in any way
Final 4 or bust
EDZ
You don’t get those years back. He was here at the wrong time. I’m sorry for the term but to me thats a waste of his GGT. That stuff happens all the time. One of my favorite HC in College is L. Romar for lots of reasons. One interview after the GU/UW game 3 years ago, was telling to me right away. He said regarding Matt as a Freshman in that game " I wonder what took them(coaches) so long to start this kid? He’s by far the best basketball player on the team" he went on to say other things that hinted to where he thought Matt would be playing in his career. Interestingly enough, it was the point.
I dont think he was a better option than Pargo
Except for his struggles after the UConn game, Jeremy was remarkably consistent, and always delivered in big games. It wouldn’t have made sense not to play Jeremy at the point
Final 4 or bust
Jeremy wasn't the best option IMO
Jeremy didn’t play like a point should play and that’s why he never developed into one. My point on Matt was to point out he should’ve been there 3 years ago and NEVER taken away from there. This staff had him playing and guarding the 3/4/5/2/1 in the same games. Posting, Playing the wing contolling the tempo shooting as a primary. They’ve had him everywhere long enough to just make him good not great at a position. Thats my gripe I guess.
great to hear from you mike
get your nap in before the thread?
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I disagree with you, Mike
I understand your angst, as many fans feel the way you do. It was a question of Pargo being the point. I think Few made the right choice, and he’s been making them for ten years. This is Matt’s chance this year, and He will do great I think.
No offense, but
This is D-1 hoops not a business where guys wait their ten years to get a raise to a “New job”! They didn’t make the right choice, thats my point. Angst? Na, I can’t do anything about it either at the beginning or when I was throwing my sit’s pillow at the tube watching Raivio and Pargo the past 3 years. The object is to win! Not win by appeasement because you’ll never get to the “Big Game” with that style of coaching. JMO
Steven
He’s the same personality with the same talent he was as a Freshman, Soph, Junior and Senior in High School. Not a nicier kid in the program than Steven but if you could give him AMMO’s drive then we would see a change. I just don’t see it coming yet.
Totally agree.
And that’s what worries me. But I can guarantee you won’t see Steven get in someones face or yell at the team. He’s a reserved kid but there have been plenty of quiet assasins as well!
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of course he wants to be great
He’s got two more years to develop. Few develops MOST of his players slowly. Ask Daye. The only player that I think Mark Few could not control was Adam Morrison. No one could. Adam was Adam. I think Few likes Grey and will give him more of an offensive role other than a 3 pt shooter this year.
totally disagree again.
But what the heck. He played two seasons now with injuries in his shooting hand. And he is much better now than he was in Highschool. I can see you don’t like him.
I haven't seen Steven improve much
He has gotten stronger for sure, but to me he is still a great shooter, who hasn’t made a huge jump or stride
Final 4 or bust
I'll tell you what
He came in as a great shooter. Don’t see it much anymore. But what i did see against UConn was a great SCORER. That’s what I want to see. Attack the rim. He’s remarkably quick.
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Quite the opposite!
My Wife and I have been driving hundreds and small thousands of miles for all of those high school years of Stevens just to watch him. He’s got more talent in his body than any player at GU period!!!!! As with EDZ and BZ, I’m telling you that if you could waech all the HS games I watched of him and could overlay them one after another the would just plain wash together as 1 film. Same smile same followthrough, same great defense same drive to the hoop, same HONEST young man. He’s developed his body but to a 6 year observer the kller instinct is either not there or hasn’t yet been pulled out.
So who redshirts this year?
Don’t say GJ. He must play
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Olynyk for sure
and then I think if you can, you try and redshirt Sam to give him a year to add strength to his frame
Final 4 or bust
Absolutely
with KO…but I stop there.
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I really want to stagger two guys
so that we essentially have two new bodies in 2010 (olynyk and dower), and then can use 3 schollies for the stacked 2011 class
Final 4 or bust
I always play with the idea of redshirting Manny
but I just don’t know if we can wait for him. He’d be SO good with a year of US style under his wing.
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2 guy's is right but which 2?
KO and GJ for me.
Dont think GJ is an option
The staff wants quickness at the PG position, and Meech and GJ will provide that. I think it will be Sam so that he can get stronger and comfortable with the offense
Final 4 or bust
Look at the minutes for the guards!
How many minutes do yu think he’s going to get?
What does Mark Few think
I thought I saw where Few said that Olynyk was going to be the biggest contributor in the Freshman class next season?
I don't see it
He struggled so badly against the top competition at the FIBA tournament, and I just can’t picture him playing against some of the teams on this schedule. He struggles as an athlete, so he needs to add the strength
Final 4 or bust
Keep in mind
Mark hasn’t really seen KO live and in person much. He’s seen him in internatinal play but I think he needs time to add weight so he can bang down low somewhat. He’s got a ways to go from what I have seen.
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GJ will not Redshirt
The Staff believes he has a chance to be special. The 2009 class is going to be a special class.
Awesome
I haven’t been so excited for a year of basketball in my life. It’s going to be awesome, frustrating and every place in between.
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this summer has kind of been boring in some ways
because it appears that the coaches really aren’t going after anybody for 2010
Agreed
recruiting has been dull but that really speaks to how weak the west coast preps are in 2010. And Gonzaga’s in a peculiar situation.
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building momentum for 2011
Right now the focus is on 2011, and the chance to bring in a class equal to that of 2007
Final 4 or bust
Definitely agree
GJ has the physical tools to be great, and will have the chance to learn from Meech and some of the other great PG’s in Gonzaga history
Final 4 or bust
100% in Spokane!
and i just realized our sidebar has (seattle?) next to it! my bad!
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Hopefully Michigan State and Duke this year too!
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NO joke
all i saw was f-ing Stanford and UW
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Thank you so much Reborn!
Looking forward to seeeing you more round here!
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Am i crazy for thinking we really might lose the conference
Portland will be damn good
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Portland will be good
and I think this will be a two bid league, but I still think Gonzaga wins the conference
Final 4 or bust
Nope!
Don’t be so tough on yourself. They could though, lol
I'm off!
Thank you so much for all your contributions everyone! We really want to make this a normal thing to build up the commenting for our blog so please keep checking in! You guys are the reason for building a great community so hopefully we can keep it up!!!!!
Thanks again and go ZAGS!
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