How will the Scholarships Work?
by Max Mandel on Apr 28, 2009 9:54 PM PDT
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While Gonzaga fans have been gripped and excited about the recent commitment of GJ Vilarino, one of the main questions revolves around how the scholarship situation will work out, and what impact it will have on future recruiting. It's pretty clear how high the staff is on GJ, as there is the potential need to shuffle scholarships if Austin Daye returns to school. At this point, this is how the Gonzaga scholarship situation looks:
Seniors
1) Matt Bouldin
2) Will Foster
Juniors
1) Austin Daye
2) Steven Gray
Sophomores
1) Demetri Goodson
2) Rob Sacre
3) Bol Kong
Freshman
1) Grant Gibbs
2) Andy Poling
3) Mangisto Arop
4) Elias Harris
5) Sam Dower
6) GJ Vilarino
7) Kelly Olynyk
This leaves the Zags one over the scholarship limit, and this obviously needs to change before next season. The other impact that this will clearly have is on how the Zags will recruit the next two years.
There are two fairly simple ways for the scholarship issue to be resolved, although from what I understand, neither appears that likely. The obvious way that this is resolved is by having Austin Daye remain in the NBA draft. This would open up a scholarship for GJ, and eliminate any issues with scholarships. However, while I have assumed and many others have as well, that Austin was as good as gone, it might not be that set in the stone. Perhaps Austin has indeed heard the rumblings around the NBA that he needs to put on strength and prove himself to be a true #1 option at the college level. Obviously, if Austin is a lottery pick, then there is no reason for him to return to schools. However, if he is projected as a pick in the late 20's, then maybe he returns to school and proves that he is the #1 option that everyone thinks he could be. While this is speculation, I wouldn't necessarily consider Austin as gone as many people do. With the potential that Austin has as the focal point in the offense next season, there is no chance that the staff would give away his scholarship as long as there was still the possibility he could return.
The other option that would open up the scholarship for GJ is the arrival of Bol Kong is back in question. While this is a possibility based on the troubles he has had over the past two years, it is my understanding that Bol will be on campus in May, and that nothing with his status has changed. Bol is a special talent, and as long as there is the expectation that he will be here, there is no way that the staff would give away his opening.
This obviously leaves Gonzaga with the reality that if Austin returns, and Bol arrives on campus as scheduled, then somebody will have to lose their scholarship. I understand that this may be a tough reality for people to wrap their minds around, but a scholarship is a one year contract between the team and the player. Therefore, if the Gonzaga staff feels that the team will be better off next season with a certain player not returning at the expense of an incoming recruit, then they certainly have the right to make a change. This is not unprecedented in recent Gonzaga history, as Mamery Diallo and Calum Macleod did not feature at Gonzaga, and went and pursued their careers elsewhere. While I don't want to speculate on who the player may be, I think it is something that we might see when the rosters are released next season, or perhaps some rumblings come out over the summer. However, this must occur if Austin returns and Bol makes his expected arrival in the States.
Tomorrow we will examine what impact Vilarino will have on the approach to recruting for Gonzaga in both 2010 and 2011. With limited scholarships to give out in each of the next two years, you better believe that the coaching staff will be aiming high for some of the top talent in the country.
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Ahhh yes, the "matrix"
His time in Spokane was prematurely cut short. Why? We’ll never know.
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Probably because he was the worst basketball player to ever grace this campus
Thats the main reason that it was cut short
Final 4 or bust
Ahhhhh yes haha.
I forgot about that. Heart of a lion though…eh?
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Lots of “T’s” to cross and “I’s” to dot before Mr. Bong or Mr. Harris get here. I tnink the idea that GU went after VO is becoming more obvious. Someone may not make it in and GU wouldn’t have to stretch for Aaron or Franklin next year to fill a void thus allowing them to FINALLY look for a true BIG. JMO. Hope it works out!
Mike, Sequim
Weakest Link Issue
Coming off a great Game 5 victory all is well in my basketball world, but these scholies have me concerned. Foster is not the weakest link. Poling or the Olynyk guy are not going to give you what Foster can give you at the beginning of the season next year. If you remember that’s when our schedule is the toughest. From what you guys say we are going to need Kong’s scoring ability. If Daye comes back and Kong gets in, then there is only one option for the staff. You have to cut the weakest link on the team. In my mind it comes down to Harris or Olynyk. Do you guys ever see the guys run? How is the Gibbs kid or Poling?
It won't be Harris or Poling
First off, congrats on your Blazers. However, it will not be Harris or Poling for the simple fact that both will be freshman next year, and both have a world of potential and the chance to be solid players at Gonzaga. If the staff is going to pull a scholarship it will be of one of the older guys who has had the time here to prove himself, and hasn’t done so yet. There is no point in stripping a freshman of the scholarship, because they still have the time to develop here. Gibbs and Poling both have the talent to contribute at Gonzaga in the next couple of years, but I think you can expect even more production out of Harris while he is at Gonzaga
Final 4 or bust
Harris is supposed to be a star
From all indications, Elias Harris should come in and be a guy with immediate impact right away. Olynyk will have no impact on the team the first year because he is far too skinny to play division one right now so he will need a year to redshirt. I’m extremely confident that Kong will be here, basically 100% sure. We are either going to need some sort of scenario where a scholarship player opts to pay his own way for a year so this can all work out like the Taylor Rochestie scenario last year or someone will have to be forced off scholarship and probably into transfer. The reason Foster is the main guy being brought up is because he is a senior and guys like Olynyk, Harris, Gibbs, and Poling still have many years ahead of them so you have to attempt to let their futures develop here. We’ve seen Gibbs here and there at open gym and stuff like that and he is very solid and smooth but with Meech, Bouldin, Gray still here and guys like Arop and Kong coming in, you have to wonder how much PT he will get. Not really sure on Poling at this point but he is at a position where Gonzaga is thin so we will need a lot of him. He impressed us last year in practice and in the midnight madness so hopefully that all carries over.
The best thing for this TEAM is for Austin to come back. Yes, it will cause some scholarship issues but with Austin, Gonzaga will not have to rely so much on all the new faces.
Congrats to your Blazers…it’s not quite a 58 point win like my Nuggets, but it will do.
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Andy's Health
There is only one issue on Andy Poling and that is the health issue he’s always dealing with. I watched him as a Soph, Jr. and Senior and because of his health he lost TON’S of ground rather than getting stronger every year. He was stronger as a Soph than when I watched him as a Senior.
Make no mistake, this kid, HEALTHY, has all the tools! He has the softest hands i’ve seen in Big(sorta big) in years. I haven’t the luxory of watching the kids workout over there but I can tell that Andy is a Gamer. When I coached, we had Morning Glory’s in practice and only a few Gamers, and Andy is a Gamer.
The problem folk’s, is not who we have now or who is coming in this year, it’s what and who we don’t have now, a “Post Presence”. None here, none coming, none mentioned in the future. I love this time of year because it’s fun to speculate on the come but when the dust settles, we will still be short of the goal! Gotta have the Big. JMO
Mike, Sequim
Playing for free
Here is my question…who has the money AND the ego to pull a “Rochestie”? I could name a couple with the dough but I don’t know about the latter part of that question.
My other gripe is with these “project” big men. The Matrix was most famous for his pool skills at the Star on Monday nights and Calum was infamous for ordering a 6 egg omlete at the COG. Foster has improved and even contributed a little but i feel like he is still in his senior year a project. I feel like Olynyk is just another project big. I liked the idea of bringing in a big from a JUCO who can contribute right away.
Other topic, if Houston would lay down like the Hornets did then the Blazers would of had a 58 pt victory as well. If we had a point guard that was 25% as good as Billups that might help too.
by DKZagBlazer on Apr 29, 2009 2:35 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't expect to see that
My biggest gripe with the coaching staff is the consistent waste of a scholarship on a “project” player. It was clear from day one that Diallo couldn’t produce at this level, so how did anyone think it would be a good idea to ever give him a scholarship. Lets stop taking risks on guys that might pan out 3 years down the line, and bring in a guy we know will bring energy and talent to the fold. I share your fear on Olynyk as he has no strength and plays against the worst competition you can imagine.
Also, if the Blazers had a PG that was as good as 25% of the PG’s in the NBA they Blazers would already have advanced.
Final 4 or bust
'projects' and bigs
As for ‘projects’, every team in the country has a project or two on the roster. Why? Because there just isn’t enough PT to play all 13 scholarship players and no team is good enough to attract equal talent at all 13 spots. Therefore, coaches give the last couple of spots to redshirts and projects – they can’t/shouldn’t complain about PT. I was mystified about the Diallo situation as well, but GU has pretty much always had a project or two on the squad and probably always will. Just like every other team in the country.
Who knows what Olynyk will be, but 35 ppg and 13 rpg along with the major assists and blocks #s make him pretty far from a project in my mind. Yeah, the competition might have been lacking, but anyone who can put up those #s against any kind of compeition is going to be at least a decent player in D-I. He just needs a little weight.
As for a big – Sacre isn’t a big? Poling isn’t a big? Dower (a Fr, granted) isn’t a big? Foster isn’t a big (granted he’s still a project)? If those are all the case, what exactly do you mean by ‘big"? If you mean specifically another Batista, I wouldn’t hold my breath. But all of those guys have or can develop the skills, have the size, can run the floor, and (hopefully, I guess, for those who haven’t played yet) control the boards.
Lots of question marks
You make some excellent points and there has really been some great conversation going in this post which is great to see. I could really care less about Gonzaga having a few projects at the end of their bench if they have room but when you can sign six guys like Mark Few signed for the 2009-10 class, you have to make some tough decisions regarding the future. The tough part about what your saying Nev is that each and every one of those “bigs” you mention is completely and 100% unproven.
Sacre has played extremely limited minutes at Gonzaga and is extremely injury prone so I am tentative to even guess about what we are going to get from him here. As far as Poling and Dower, they are obviously unproven and I think that their is a clear line between the type of big that Poling and Dower are going to be and the type of big that myself and EDZ would like to see be recruited. The next two recruiting classes are going to be vital to the future of the program because it’s time to get a load that we can plant in the middle that wants to play back to the basket all forty minutes of the game. Dower and Poling were both skilled rebounders in high school but they are so versatile that I’m sure they will want to play on the outside as well. I’d love to recruit a player that gets about 2 three-second violations a game his freshman year because he is terrified of leaving the paint.
To address the Olynyk situation, it’s really hard to judge what type of player he is going to be because from all the research we have done, the level of competition he plays against is very low level compared to high school team in the states. He puts up flashy numbers but I think the major fear is that his height and skill set will be neutralized once he meets up with players that push him around and can actually match his height with pure athleticism, something not found in excess where he played his high school ball.
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Sacre has at least seen some action. He was looking better in limited minutes early last season and had his moments the season before, though I’m as worried about his foot as you are. He seems to be a fast healer and not necessisarily injury-prone, but I hate the idea of a bent screw just hanging out in his foot, waiting for some minor accident to cause another break or a worse injury. sigh As long as his foot’s okay, though, I think he’ll do relatively well.
The other guys I’ll agree are unproven. However, I’m not convinced that a solid, old-fashioned back-to-the-basked guy is the answer for GU. First, players like that are very rare (especially tall ones). They’re even becoming rare in the NBA (or at least more rare). I also am not sure that a real space-heater could keep up with GU’s running game, whereas Sacre, who is as big and strong as anyone AFAIK, can. We all saw how effective a guy like Josh could be on the break. Guys that can be solid space-heaters with a polished post game and can run on the break are going to UNC, Duke, Kansas, etc, and are almost certainly 1 and done. All in all, yeah, I’d love Josh Smith on the team as much as anyone, but GU doesn’t need that kind of player to excell IMO. I would like to see one of our bigs develop a solid post offense, though. Sacre would be ideal, but barring that, my hopes are on Poling this season. If he’s really gained weight this past season as reports suggest, it seems like he has the height, footwork and post skill to do some damage down there. Either one would be a great compliment to either Austin or (potentially) a player like Harris at PF and force defenders to pick their poison in the paint.
Fair point about Olynyk. I still think he’ll be at least serviceable no matter what. He might or might not be a starter at any point in his career, but barring injury, I bet he’ll at least get good minutes in the next few years. 35 ppg is 35 ppg. At worst, he’ll be a situational shooter who can contribute on D. At best, his ceiling could be really high.
Like with any other debate it depends on your own personal evaluation of the game and how you describe the positions of the players. Nev is right about the kids being “Big” but he’s wrong about them being post players. GU does not have a true Post player period!
Robert is a great kid who is a banger and gets rebounds, has very few if any post moves and no game out to 15, more along the lines of Gourde. Kelly and Dower are 3-4’s and won’t ever change. Will, I love him, is just one of the projects thats always there but still is not what we need. Andy is the closest thing we have to a post player. He has the skills no doubt but his health has and will, remain an issue for him and I see limited minutes overall. Finally, my point is simple, you don’t win it all very often without the true “Big” post player who has the skills. Are they there to find? Yep! Takes some time but they’re there and will fill the gap. I’m not down on our kids but if your going to discuss what their rolls or positions are, you have to be willing to start from each position and look at the kid you’re trying to place there. Just because your 6-11 doesn’t make you a “Big” or Post player! By the way, Josh is not and never was a “Post” player but he was athletic enough to compensate and as you both say, run the court and fit into the Zags program. Nobody on the current roster either here or coming in is better than Josh was as a freshman or now. WE HAVE NO POST PLAYERS, YET! We have some tall kids with very good skills who might slip in and out of the post but NO post player.
Almost forgot JP! 6’9"…….a very good “Post” player, not at UNC, Kansas, Duke, ect. He was a Post player, yeah only 6-8 to 6-9 but a true Post player. I f you start there for the conversation about the need at GU for a Post player, I’m there! If you include ALL of the others mentioned with the same type of player JP was, we have no foundation to begin debate with. As always, JMO
35 ppg is not 35 ppg.
Top 100 recruits average ppg’s in the teens because the competition they play against is so tough. Imagine what a Steven Gray or Bouldin would of thrown up if they played in that league. The at best/at worst argument is also a tad off. At worst, he takes up a scholarship for a couple years, hangs around the Star, and makes the omlete line take forever. So basically a hybrid of the Matrix and Calum. Now that’s scary. At best, he might be able to contribute against games vs. Pepperdine or LMU.
The entire game of basketball is shifting away from the big men back to the basket approach. Not the strategy but the players are adjusting to make it to the next level. From little leagues on up. If you want to play college ball and you are 6’6’’ (however you are the tallest person in your school) then you better learn how to play outside as well. If you are in college and are 6’9’’ you are not getting to the league with a post game up. You need to play outside. Don’t you think Josh knew this all along and that is why he consistently worked on his outside game? I would love a dominate post player but I don’t think we can get one of them because they are so few. UConn went into the African jungle to grab Thabeet. I really think the key is you recruit an unproven big and place him in a nearby JUCO and watch his progress. If he improves then nab him.
That is basically what is happening with Guy-Marc Michel
Tommy Lloyd and the staff placed Guy-Marc at North Idaho College and have been monitoring his progress. He’s an enormous 7’1’’ prospect who still has another year of development at NIC but he was pretty stellar in his freshman season averaging about a double-double against some pretty talented competition. If he continues to develop and Gonzaga can keep some of the power programs off Michel, he could turn into that kind of big. Or, he could turn into another project. Risky business.
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DKZagBlazer, perhaps you’ve lived in B.C. and are very familiar with the quality of the competition Olynyk has been facing. I’m not, I’ll admit. But his ceiling is contributing vs Pepp and LMU? Come on, man, you haven’t even seen the kid play! Give him a chance, sheesh. Unless you’re concealing them, you don’t have any real reasons for your opinion. Why not be a little more optimistic about him? You’re just hating on him for no reason. Clearly the coaches saw something they thought was worth offering him a scholarship for.
I agree that the game is shifting away from back to the basket bigs. Not that a player like that would hurt, but a team by no means needs that kind of post presence to get to the final four. Even Thabeet, while he became a dominant big, started out much worse off than Rob, for example. In three years, where could Rob be, if he works hard and develops a bit? He has all the physical gifts necessary to be a very very good post player. Same with Poling, as far as I’ve seen. He’s apparently up to 240 + and a lot stronger. He seems to have the post skills, so with the weight gain, he should be good. Plus, both of these guys can run with the team.
Final thought – I’m pretty down on Michel. Maybe he’ll turn out great, but I wasn’t all that impressed after seeing him play in person. I wouldn’t mind if he take over Foster’s spot after this season, though – he might develop and, as they say every broadcast with Foster in there, you can’t teach size.
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