Addressing scary stats, tightening the rotation, and Gonzaga basketball
by Zach Bell on Dec 22, 2009 11:12 AM PST
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PrintAfter Saturday's debacle at Madison Square Garden, many Gonzaga fans have suggested that they hope Mark Few and the squad forget about what happened. Sometimes in sports there is nothing better than having a short memory. However, in this case, the results of Saturday are just too "in your face" to be ignored. Another reason why they should not be ignored is because they are a culmination of a pretty bad month of basketball.
We harp on this all the time on the blog. December is typically Gonzaga's biggest month of the season. It can provide them with quality wins or it can make winning the West Coast Conference tournament an absolute must. It's usually the defining factor of Gonzaga's NCAA Tournament bid because it's probably the first place the committee looks after checking to see if Gonzaga won the WCC Tournament. Some years show that Gonzaga beat a couple of top-5 teams in a three game stretch, and some years show that Gonzaga lost to an underwhelming ACC team at home before getting housed by Duke in New York. The good news for Gonzaga is that the month, and their opportunity for quality wins is not over. With that being said, there isn't much time to figure out a solution for all the problems this team now has.
The last time I really felt genuinely good about a Gonzaga game was late November against Wisconsin. Sure, Gonzaga has had some nice games and wins since then. In particular, comeback wins over Cincinnati and Washington State. In that Wisconsin game, however, Gonzaga was physical, meticulous, and dominated a well-coached Badgers team. Since then, little issues have been popping up this month and the result boiled over into a 35 point loss on Saturday. Is there a quick fix to all these issues? No, but I think it is time for the staff to take a good hard look at this team and start making some tough decisions.
continue reading this post after the jump...
The purpose of this post is not to lay out a practice schedule for Mark Few or to tell him what he should say to his team before they take the floor on the 28th. If you've watched Gonzaga basketball over the past few games, you probably already know what the issues I referred to in the intro are. Poor free throw shooting, failure to compete on the offensive glass, and a healthy knack for turnovers are all reasons why this team is struggling. Two of these issues can be classified as youth problems and the other seems to just be a desire issue.
The free-throw shooting has just been flat out horrendous. Only Matt Bouldin, Bol Kong, and Elias Harris are shooting a respectable percentage in my book. Elias' 74% is not bad when you consider that he is a freshman big man. I'm sure it could be much worse. Mangisto Arop and Grant Gibbs are both shooting sub-50% which is totally inexcusable. Both have small sample sizes but, when you are fighting for playing time, you've got to hit the easy ones. Steven Gray's 79% is sub-par for me because I expect more from him. He shot 83% as a freshman, 71% as a sophomore, and is now just below 80%. That freshman season as a whole is beginning to look like an aberration. There is really no quick fix for this problem besides practice and more reps for young players like Manny, Grant, etc. Composure is obviously an issue with them right now and that will take some time but I imagine that these stats will go up.
Do you realize that right now Robert Sacre's assist-to-turnover ratio is 1/21. That's not a typo unless the folks at ESPN decided to leave a decimal point out between the 2 and the 1. Upon further investigation, it's true. Rob has one assist this year in contrast with 21 turnovers. Just for comparison's sake, last year, Josh Heytvelt's ratio was 1/2. Turnovers aren't just a Rob issue though. Bol Kong has the best A/T ratio with three assists for every turnover. Manny Arop sits at 2/1. The fact that these two lead this category is scary enough but when you consider that Demetri Goodson sits at 1/1.4 and G.J. Vilarino sits at 1/2, it's downright petrifying. Matt Bouldin's at 1.3/1 and Grant Gibbs is at 1.2/1. Steven Gray, somehow, is at 1/1.1. Matt and Steven's numbers have to be higher because the offense goes through them. Demetri Goodson's assist to turnover ratio is terrible. Last year he had a nice ratio of 1.6/1 as he was fitting his role. This year I just feel like he is trying to hard and that is a big reason for his erratic play. He has to realize that his role on this team hasn't changed much from a year ago. He's the starting point guard but his only real job is to be smart with the basketball. I think every Gonzaga fan and Mark Few would say that assists are a plus at this point but turning the ball over is completely detrimental. Don't read too much into G.J. Vilarino's ratio. He only has one assists and two turnovers on the season.
Basically what I am hoping for right now from Mark Few is that he re-evaluates the way he has assembled this rotation and take a good, hard look at who is benefiting the team. After the game I said that it was time to tighten the screws on this team and put together a rotation capable of righting the ship. Looking at the stats I laid out earlier in the post, I feel like these guys need a course in role-definition. We have too many players on the bench that aren't sure when their minutes are coming and whether they'll even play on a day-to-day basis and at this level, that can't happen. There are teams that can get away with playing ten-deep but after Saturday, I don't think Gonzaga is one of them. Only eight players currently deserve to be playing regular minutes. The starting five, obviously, and a bench of Kong, Arop, and Gibbs.
I don't believe this because the other guys are bad players but because there has got to start being a type of consistency with this roster. Kelly and Will can be situational subs if Elias and Rob get in foul trouble. Bol should be first off the bench to spell Elias and take Gonzaga from an inside-out team to a team that can really stretch the court. Bol can become a match up nightmare if used correctly and everything he has done on the court screams that he needs more minutes. Mangisto Arop is the perfect substitute for the Gonzaga backcourt. I still do believe he should be starting right now but since I don't think that will happen, I'll live with him being second off the bench. Manny knows his role. He hits the boards, attacks when he has to, and works hard on the court. The role thing is what stands out the most. Unlike some of the other players on this team, Manny appears to get it. Grant's minutes are a result of a couple things. Unlike Manny, Grant is in the mold of Steven and Matt. He has a similar game to Matt and has the ability to pass the basketball. His A-T ratio is 2/1 and Gonzaga needs all the help they can get in that department. Grant, like Manny, also understands his role. Both players will continue to gain confidence as the year progresses and I think we'll see positive things from them offensively as they are already doing some of the little things.
Like I said, this is not meant to detract from Kelly, GJ, or Will. I think we've all seen Kelly and G.J.'s glimpses and Will has been adequate as a situational sub. KO and GJ both have bright futures but there time is not now. There will be games when they get extended minutes because of match up issues or fouls but, a majority of the time, I would love to see only the eight players I mentioned get the lions share of time on the floor. I still count about four-and-a-half more quality wins out there for Gonzaga. Illinois, Memphis, and two games with St. Mary's. I'll give the half to Oklahoma because I have no clue if they are going to get things together but I'm hoping so. For these games to turn out successfully, I think we'll need to stop guessing at who is going to play today and let players develop into their roles.
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Will we finally get the message?
Agree with this post, especially the suggestions for the rotation. I don’t think we should just chalk this up as a bad game since this was just a result of a really good team taking advantage of the problems we’ve had ALL year. It should prompt some change.
Couple other things I keep seeing from my recliner…
1) Rotation- Not only are we not playing the right people at the right spots during the game, but we aren’t allowing players to get in a groove or sub them when they’ve clearly established they’re out of a groove. As far as SSF suggestions, completely agree. Some guys need to see some pine, and some (like Arop and Kong) need to see a lot more minutes. Yes, Manny’s jumper is a question and yeah, Bol’s defense is even a bigger question. But man, every time they’re in, I see immediate impact.
2) Hustle- I saw a ton of it at the beginning of the season. The hunger of the underdogs to prove themselves. Scrappy play, hands always up, in your face, diving for every loose ball. We’ve seemed sluggish as of late. Maybe playing Augustana and Davidson weren’t the best right before Duke, but c’mon, you have to bring your “A” game, otherwise just stay home. Especially at MSG, the way we played was just disrespectful. Lately, I’ve seen a lot of half assed attempts. During the Duke game, we were losing almost every loose ball. While we actually still played pretty good defense, it’s all for not if you continuously give teams second and third chances giving up one offensive rebound after another.
3) Offense. Or actually, what offense?! We have some individually good players, but if they’re not hitting shots, we need an offense that can create without the players having to do it all on their own. I have seen and broken down some of our set plays, but that’s not an offense. It’s been shown that Few cannot adapt the offense against different opponents, and that’s going to kill us. Teams have figured us out. Double Rob, give Meech space, double the guard bringing up the ball right after half court, don’t let us play transition, if you see us play zone consider yourselves on fire from the 3-pt line. We need to change up the plan. Also, we need A LOT more ball movement… a lot.
4) Turnovers- I see this as a result of a couple things. I think it’s about a 60% chance Rob is going to turn it over if he gets doubled. It’s a 75% chance Meech is going to turn it over every time he drives into 3 defenders. And it seems as every time one of our guards brings the ball up and picks up his dribble just over half court, it’s going to be a turnover and automatic deuce for the other team. While there have been some lazy passes (Gray I am especially talking to you here), I think we should be able to recognize where we are having the issues turning it over and get someone in a position for an easy pass (i.e., Rob, the same guy is doubling you every time, guess where your open teammate is). Also, Harris, the reason you were called for traveling 47 times is because you were, and have been all season. I have been surprised you haven’t been called more before the Duke game.
5) Free throws- I won’t beat a dead horse, but I thought it was very a perfect representation: watching one of the Krem2 Raw interview videos, Foster was in the background shooting free throws. He made1 out of about 25 during the interview. While I know, it’s Foster, I couldn’t help but get frustrated. We need to improve this, plain and simple.
Every year I try to tell myself, it’s college basketball, these guys are 18-23 years old, don’t take it too seriously. Besides, what do I know, I never played past high school. It’s just hard to see the same mistakes over and over, and know that we could be better. Anyway, Duke still sucks, Go Zags!
by BW2020 on Dec 22, 2009 12:45 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
KO and GJ
I agree completley with that assertion. KO is a match up nightmare against more athletic openents. He’s just seems to be too young physically against the big time opponents. GJ’s sample is small however, he does seem to get out of control at times. I think these two will help us out during WCC play, but KO is not ready against elite competition. One more thing that seems to be hurting right now is the only pure shooter out there seems to be Kong, but like you mentioned earlier (11 minutes a game) Steven and Matt have always been streaky. I think Grant has the ability to knock down 3’s, but he needs to be more assertive on the offensive end. KO hasn’t shown us any ability to knock down 3’s even though his scouting report says he can? We are a young team and last weeks game certainly showed that!
glen mccloud
KO
He won’t be a real threat until we start playing him at the three. He’s not meant for the inside game, I don’t care how tall he is. He’s Austin Daye-lite and I hope the staff doesn’t whiff on him. He’s not fit for low post offense and is best on the outside where he can create his own shot and just run the offense. He’s also not strong enough to defend in the post which is why you see him pick up so many fouls down low.
GJ just seems to want to go in there and force the action and take shots at this point. Hopefully this is not what the coaching staff is telling him. He’s got supreme athleticism and speed but I haven’t been impressed with the way he fits on this team yet. I’m suddenly wishing the staff would have redshirted him just so that he and Meech could have been staggered a little bit.
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GJ
why not redshirt a guy when he only gets 4 minutes a game? I agree he should have been redshirted! KO at the 3 on offense I like. But he will never be able to defend other 3’s. KO almost seems like a tweener at this point? I wish they would have redshirted him as well and played Sam. Sam seems more physically mature at this point.
glen mccloud
As do I
I actually voted for Kong only playing 11 minutes because I don’t expect the other things to change much. Hopefully the FT% changes a little bit for the better. I think it will once we get a few more games under our belts.
Kong’s minutes must improve. He should be playing around 16-20 minutes a game at this point, not 11.
Meech’s ratio will probably improve when he faces some less than good teams in the WCC and Rob’s should too. Overall I think Bol playing more is hugely important; not just because he deserves it, but because it will mean the staff has adjusted.
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Where to start...
1) Kelly O. – I love his enthusiasm for the game and his competitiveness, but he’s simply not strong enough to pull down rebounds when he’s in the paint, and he is easily thrown around and frustrated. I have stopped counting the occasions on which he has been stripped or boxed out, and commits a foul out of anger or frustration. He really needs a year to develop, get stronger, and learn to play within himself and the team. Coming from a league in which he averaged 30+ points per game, it must be a harsh transition fitting into a talented team competing against the best in the nation. A redshirt would really have benefited him, but since that is no longer an option, I would rather him come off the far-end of the bench under the tight scrutiny of Few.
2) GJ and Meech – I’m going to group these two players together, because they both suffer from the same problems and lack the ability to distribute the ball like a true point guard. Both of these guys play completely out of control, make ill-advised drives into the lane or throw up bad shots early into a shot clock (that is more of GJ’s thing…Meech is more into driving the lane into three bigs). As a point guard, I would like to see both of them control their speed and limit it to transition play. When we are in our half-court offense, they need to think before they rush passes or take it upon themselves to score. I consider their inability to run the point a coaching problem that can be fixed through time spent in practice and watching tape. I have full confidence that both players will be a valuable addition to our team in the years to come, but this development will take time.
3) Steven – I have lost almost all faith in his ability to bring his best every game and be a foundational member of this team. It is already evident at this point in the season that he is undeserving of a starting position given his erratic play and penchant for lazy turnovers. What happened to the cool and collected Steven we witnessed in 2007? How come we only see what he is capable of once every six months (UCONN 2008, Davidson 2008, Cincinnati 2009)? I’m not willing to give him consistent playing time on the premise that he is ‘capable’ of performing like he has on those few occasions.
4) Bol and Arop – Both of these guys need to see the court a lot more. I know they both have their shortcomings, but both guys are already visibly maturing and finding their role within the offense and defense. In the past few games, Bol’s defense has been improving by leaps and bounds…he’s keeping his arms up, staying in front of his man, and no longer willing to concede outside shots. Bol is instant offense that demands attention from the defense and is a threat from anywhere on the court. Also, I have yet to see him show the slightest amount of trepidation or nervousness on the court. He is poised and calm all the time. Arop is a much different player that should see the court for the same reasons as Bol. Arop gives everything he has every moment he’s on the court. He’s a great rebounder, has a respectable shot, and great athleticism that makes him capable of getting to the rim anytime. If we could get him to hit his free-throws, he’d be as complete a freshman as we could possibly expect.
Zagnificent - GU Class of 2011
Arop and Gibbs have not done a thing to substantiate your conclusion. Not a thing. GJ has outperformed both when he’s in the game. Better scoring average, beter FG% better FT% better 3pt %, better points per shot, better defensively, Just better period.
GJ has to be committed to or he’s a one and done guy at this program. If the guys that were playing in front of him were better or were just having great years, understandable.
Not the case with Meech, Gibbs or any other perimeter player on this team not named Gray or Boulding.
Frankly, unless GJ and Meech are allowed to play and develop this team has no chance against elite level teams. Only guys on this team that could run and jump with elite level players in the perimeter are these two.
You can win the WCC with the guys you talked about but you can’t win big with some of your suggestions. Not ever going to happen.
You could teach both of them and help them with their short-comings as players, but you can’t teach to anyone else on that team what they both have physically. You could talk about it all you want, but GJ and Meech must play and develop or you have no shot at beating BCS conference teams when it counts in March. Only two on this team that can pull it off at the 1 spot.
I don't really care about G.J's scoring ability right now
I just want him to stick in his role which has to be distributor and facilitator at this point. I can’t imagine Mark Few asking him to go in there and drive, drive, drive, and if he gets the ball on the outside, be a shoot first player.
I expected him to be like Meech last year where he didn’t force the action but took what came to him. Meech was sensational last year and had everyone drooling about his future. I still think he will be a stud here at GU but it’s obvious he has yet to settle into his role and the staff still isn’t sure how to use him best.
I noted G.J.‘s remarkable athleticism a number of times but it’s a two way street. Playing within himself is a must right now and I’ve yet to see that. Gonzaga’s beaten elite level teams with players far less athletic than GJ and Meech.
I like Grant and Manny more right now because Grant seems to have better court vision and Manny has an added dimension rebounding wise and his length lends itself well to defense and shot blocking. Instead of having nine made shots (two of them being threes) I’d rather have him with nine assists and two turnovers.
He’s got four years to be in college. This year won’t make or break anything for him. Just like the other freshman, G.J.’s still learning the system and settling into college basketball. I love his future abilities and hope there is nothing one and done about him.
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What has Grant or Manny done? The stats don’t support your assertions. Court vision, GJ has the lowest turnover ratio per minutes played on this team and it’s not even close. Defensively, not even close. I’ve already eluded to the offensive statistics. Not even close. In fact, I’ll give you another stat. He has the highest shooting % of any perimeter player on this team and guess what? Meech is third.
Gonzaga will not beat elite level teams down the line if Meech and GJ are not playing at a high level. Playing Matt at the point is not a good idea. Can he play it, yes. Not a a very high level and can’t play it at all defensively. Additionally, it takes way from Matt offensively.
GJ and Meech have to be developed. Every minute you give to anyone else on this team to play the 1 position is a waste of time. Because all your doing is taking the time away from the two guys who could physically play that position over the next few years. Meech and GJ has to work. Do they have work to do? Yes, no doubt. But, their not going to get better sitting on that bench.
I know we agree to disagree
With point guards, I have all the faith in Coach Few and the staff. They’ve gotten so much out of point guards in the past that if I’m not seeing improvements at that position, I will probably blame the player. That’s just my opinion as someone who has followed this program.
I won’t comment on G.J. personally because his sample size is so small. It’s hard for me to claim that he deserves more time as a point guard when the only stats he has amassed in the A/T ratio column are 1/2.
I’ve never really been a stats guru. All I know is that, from what I’ve watched and as a Gonzaga fan, I’d like to see more of Manny and Grant. Grant convinced me with his play against Washington State and Manny has impressed me everytime on the court because he has the size to be a match up issue and he is so versatile with his passing, defense, and rebounding.
At the same time, I was clamoring for more G.J. early in the season after MSU and a few other games so we’ll have to see. I agree with you that one of these two has to step up because I don’t want to see Matt or Steven run the point at all.
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I love this site and I like the discussion. I don’t agree with many for obvious reasons. I’m trying to be as objective as possible but often i don’t see that objectivity by many negetively posting anything about GJ when the stats do not support the discussion. So I have to view it as either agenda driven, style vs substances, etc.
Upside and Stats say he should play before anyone you guys are trying to make a case for. additionally, he has world class attributes (Speed, Athleticism, quickness, ballhandeling skills, vision). You can’t teach that.
Don’t get me wrong, I support all the guys on this team, but I’ve noticed an underserved bashing of GJ, not just on this site but on the other one and the hyping of other players who have not outperformed him in any measurable significant category, for the position he is playing and under this system.
memorial80
You’re a huge supporter of GJ from day one. I think you must have gone to high school with him or something, and I think you favor him more than most other players. I’m a huge Zag fan, but also feel like have the ability to be quite unbiased. Bottom line, GJ plays recklessly on the floor. Similar to Meech, he uses his speed to push the tempo which typically results in a missed layup, turnover, or lucky conversion. He appears to be a shot-first guard, which is the exact opposite that I expected from him. In consideration his “leash” has gotten shorter, I think Few and Co. would agree. Stats don’t mean too much when you’re playing less than 10 mins. a game. His time is earned in practice. He has many intangibles that will allow him to thirve at GU in the future or maybe an injury will accelerate that, but just because he was a baller in high school doesn’t mean that will translate to the next level so quickly.
We’re lucky to have Vil and he will more than contribute at some point.
Go Zags!!!
Again, your assertions are not validated by facts. Missed lay-up- Highest field goal % of all perimeter players. Turnover- Lowest turnover ratio of all players on this team (not even close). Luck conversions- I don’t think that even deserves a response.
Stats mean an awful lot, especially when you are comparing them to guys with the same sample size. GJ, Many and Gibbs have identical sample sizes.
Again, I’ve eluded to this in the past. ..there will be no future here if he is not committed to. He will not play behind guys that he is better than.
8 assists in 114 min versus 1 assist in 104 min
37 rebounds versus 4 rebounds
the first person is arop, the second is vilarino.
When I’m watching them play I see the kind of positive impact arop makes versus vilarino putting a bad shot up every time he gets a chance. Almost everybody on this team needs playing time to develop, I don’t know what is gained by arbitrarily deciding that vilarino should get the chance over any another freshman.
Looking at grant gibbs he has 11 asissts and 21 rebounds in 108 minutes. They’ve all played comparable minutes and manny and grant have both made more positve contributions in those categories than gj has.
gj has 2 turnovers versus grant’s 9 and manny’s 4, but both grant and manny have more assists than they do turnovers. If you want to use the eyeball test and say gj has looked more impressive that’s one thing, but I’d have to disagree with you there. He hasn’t looked very impressive at all to me and I prefer grant’s passing ability over gj’s, which I think is what we need in our point guard coming off the bench.
Vilarino probably needs to put up more bad shots as you mentioned, as he is shooting at a higher % then any perimeter player on this team. Arop statistically, except for his rebounding is not doing a thing, neither is Gibbs, Defensively, they give up more dribble penetration then any two players on this team. Offensively, Arop is an average creator of his own shot off the dribble and Gibbs can’t.
Again, let’s not let facts get in the way of a good story.
Additionally if you pay any attention to the way they run their offense, you would see, that the point guards on this team do no make entry passes or come off screens to create assist opportunities. Matt and Gray are the ones who do that and guess who lead this team in assists? Matt and Gray. Who plays the Matt and Gray position on this team? Arop and Gibbs.
Meech and GJ will never have high assist numbers on this team because the system is not set-up that way. The only way they could ever get assists on this team is during the transition game.
Again, no-one in this discussion has been able to make a credible, objective case for Arop or Gibbs over GJ. Facts/Numbers do not support arguments.
*Bad shots- Highest field goal % of any perimeter player.
*Out of Control- Lowest turn-over per minutes of any player on team (not even close)
*Better FG, FT%,3pt%,scoring average, turn-over per minutes, defender then the guys your trying to make a case for… Just the facts.
you think it's "arbitrary"?
as in coach flips a coin or throws some darts? hahahahahahahahahaha LOL LOL LOL LOL
Coach, like us, is trying to figure this team out. Our youth is a hindrance and a blessing, but be sure that coach has thought long and hard about who plays. It’s earned in practice, of which we fans never see.
These knee jerk reactions are hilarious…
Go Zags!!!
Arop has the balls
This guy in my opinion should get a few starts over Mr Gray and get him to start playing like a man. Arop is all of that— he goes balls to the wall and has no fear. He is a great rebounder and someone who can jumpstart this team. This is a guy who wants it so bad as you brilliantly displayed with his play this summer— and he is a guy like you said when it comes to game time and he is given the minutes he will provide great returns. I am a big believer in this guy……..
Rob
It may be me but it seems like Rob is waiting for the double team when he gets the ball in the low post and when it gets there he’s lost. He’s not going up with power and usually gets the ball stripped causing a turnover. I would like to seem him catch and go to the rim rather than waiting for the double. He doesn’t have the offensive skills yet to beat the double team.
When he waits for the double team he is effectively taken out of the offense. He hasn’t proven he can finish against the double or kick it out effectively. With his size and strength double teams should create offensive opportunities but right now it’s a detriment to the offense.
How is Bol's playing time coming in last in this poll?
It’s the clear answer.
Look the other things are specific player defects that aren’t exactly new revelations. Sacre wasn’t a good rebounder his freshman year and hasn’t gotten better. Demetri isn’t a distributing PG; he’s bad Jeremy Pargo-lite. And if you’re guys aren’t good FT shooters it’s hard to change that.
Not playing Bol is an easily fixable situation that Few is refusing to fix. It’s clear to ANYONE who watches the Zags that Bol is offensive dynamite. Why we shun such a wonderful option is inexcusable.
Generally the problem is not more offense
If you are going to win consistently against good competition you have to play good defense. This team is scoring about 80 points a game (well Duke brought that average down) — we don’t need more points — we need more stops.
Team defense requires the players work together as a “team”. Right now that ain’t happening. Pick any game and I can show you a dozen breakdowns in the first half. These lead to foul trouble and worse.
Bol will get minutes when he learns to play D.
mjc
We go through stretches every game where it seems we can't score for 4-6 minutes.
I’d say we need O.
And Bol’s denfensive struggles have been overhyped because of how bad he was the first 2 games he played. I’ve seen nothing to suggest he’s not a capable defender since.
by SethGrandpa on Dec 23, 2009 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
Defense Creates Offense
You cannot score till you have the ball. Trading baskets will never win a game.
mjc
by quidveritas on Dec 24, 2009 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
Did you watch the Duke game?
Bol played significant time. He was timid offensively (marked improvement on the defensive end). It wasn’t until the very end where he let it fly. Now that said, although he played more time than he usually did, I didn’t see one offensive set designed for him…I love the high pick, screen away, open 3 look play that we’ve been using, but didn’t see it against Duke. NOt sure if that was their D or us not having it. Bottom line, Bol should have been more assertive with his opprotunity IMO, but every annoit him as the new starter…not quite yet IMO.
Go Zags!!!
He played about five-and-a-half minutes in the first half
Played nice defense, had a block but never really got a nice shot opportunity.
Didn’t come back in again until 10:28 in the second half when Duke was up 52-28. Bol should have came in when Kelly entered with 15 minutes to go in the second half when Duke’s lead was down to 16, IMO.
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He touched the ball twice before the end of the game.
That’s a game planning issue, not a lack of assertiveness.
by SethGrandpa on Dec 23, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
Few's rotation
I get the sense that he’s playing a deep bench to groom for the future as much as he’s trying to win now. With that, there will be painful learning curves with as we’ve seen positive outcomes.
This game was an aberation. 3000 miles, duke’s played there three times this season, Duke’s a top 5 team with 4 all-americans. Sure it should have been closer than 35, but to suggest having 2 new starters is a bit much IMO.
We all know this is a young team. Few’s got his eye on the now and the later. The deeper rotation will pay huge dividends next season and beyond. And also, in those tougher games, the starters see the lion share of the minutes. Against Duke, however, nothing was working and Few was forced to go with more Bol, Will, Arop…a savvy coaching move that helped early but turned out to be futile as Duke played there best game of the year.
Merry Christmas and Go Zags!!!
Bol is not the savior
Sure, he can shoot the 3 but he looks ssslow out there. Start him and there will be complaints about him too. The 3s will not fall once the word gets out, defenses will adjust and he will turn it over in the paint . Nothing against Bol, I like him. I just do not see him as the way out. Not now. Next year perhaps.
Nobody talks about bringing in Andy Poling and getting him some minutes. At 6’11, 232 lbs and rated as one of the 20 best centers in the country by one recruiting service, maybe he would work out a little better than KO?? Just a thought….is he in Few’s dog house?
GO ZAGS!!~
I'm not asking him to be the savior
I’m just asking to take the reins off a little bit. Maybe from 11 minutes to around 16.
We needed offense in the second half against Duke and I thought putting him in early in the second half was the obvious choice. Look, we’re down 16 to Duke and have battled back a bit and when the horn sounded for a sub, I fully expected Bol. Best case scenario is that he hits a three or two, gets some help and maybe Gonzaga could get it back into single digits. Worst case scenario, he has the similar fate of Kelly Olynyk and the Duke lead goes from 16 to 24. I’m just a simple blogger but when you are down 16 and nothing is working, I’d rather err on the side of reckless with my subs because, in my head, the benefit of getting Kong’s instant offense far outweighed the risk. I enjoy Kelly and think that he will be a solid Gonzaga Bulldog but I’ve yet to see any reason why he should be in when Gonzaga needs an offensive spark. We saw Bol do some great things on O this year. He sparked Gonzaga’s near comeback win versus Wake Forest and I feel like his strides on defense have been great.
I gotta get press credentials so I can ask about this sub because it’s now driving me crazy.
I honestly have been dumbfounded by Andy and his minutes. His play or lack thereof has basically ruined all of our preseason previews because we expected Andy to contribute and Kelly to redshirt! I guess we have to trust the coaches on this one because he’s only really played in scrub time against bad teams so there’s no way that we can make any kind of educated guess at why he isn’t playing. Another question that I’d love to be asked to Mark Few at some point. It’s hard to see a player that apparently had an amazing redshirt year not see any court time.
It’s hard for me to say that I feel like Andy will play once he gets familiar with the system because he’s had a year to practice with the team, learn the offense, learn the defense, and gain weight. His knowledge of the system should be great. Who knows.
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Why do you assume the 3s would stop falling?
Have you seen the one’s he’s been taking? Guys right up in his face, yet he drains them. You’re basing this on random assumptions, not from on-court results. Speaking of which, you clearly have no clue if you think Polling should get time. He’s terrible (and again, this is based on when he’s actually been in the game as opposed to some imaginary projection). He was orignally a high recruit because he was developed at a young age, but failed to add skills to his game or gain weight so his recruiting stock actually dropped (luckily for him the Zags gave him a schoolarship super early). Also, he’s the worst FT shooter I’ve ever seen (including Will).
by SethGrandpa on Dec 23, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
hmmmmmm. Didn't see this post......
Ok SethGrandpa,
Seems like the 3s have stopped falling just as I predicted. The word got out and defenses adjusted….Sooooo, looks like my “random assumptions” were right on.
On Polling, the guy had a medical condition which made it impossible to “gain weight”. He was weakened from it and actually lost weight. Sooo, my apoligies regarding my “imaginary projections.”
Its gonna be gLoRiOUS!!~
My only "fix" is
for Steven Grey. Usually when a player is not contributing he gets benched, at least for awhile until the hustle comes back. Here’s my picks for starting line-up. 1-Goodson, 2-Boulden, 3-Kong, 4-Harris, 5-Sacre. Grey should go back to his role as a sub. Our weakest spot is at the 3 position right now. If I had to choose between Olynyk, Kong, & Grey, I choose Kong. He is more consistant.
I replayed the Duke game the other day because I just wanted to determine at what point did things start to go to hell. It was at about 10 minutes into the first half when Duke went to the free-throw line in two consecutive posessions. That put their lead up to five or so, then we started missing every shot…I mean EVERY shot…and Duke out rebounded us for the rest of the half. From that point froward, we couldn’t buy a basket. We’ve made plenty of shots with hands in our faces before, so I don’t think is was so much Duke’s defense as it was our poor shooting both from the field and at the line. They just simple out shot us by a ton.
Tom117
Bol "the saviour" Kong
It is my fondest hope that Bol Kong can continue to develop, rain in 3s, dish, bring it in the paint, do it consistantly and do it against superior competition.
Its just that I have doubts he can do it all, consistantly, right now. If Few gives him more playing time, which I think we are all in agreement that he should, we will see what kind of results he can bring and whether he can deliver on a consistant basis.
If he does good, great. If he struggles and we still win, still great because he will get better.
I just did not think he was the end all answer to the Zags current shortcomings.
Let’s see what happens with Bouldin vs EWU and Oklahoma. Maybe he just needs to get his head clear and things will start rolling again.
BTW~~ I met Bol at a Walgreens on N. Division a couple of months ago…nice guy.
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