The Morning After: Thoughts on Gonzaga-Michigan State
How much fun was that last night? As I wrote that postgame reaction piece after the game, I knew I would have to write a more concise wrap up this morning as I could barely think clearly after Michigan State outlasted Gonzaga 75-71. After re-watching the game this morning and thinking about a few things, there are definitely some aspects of last night's contest that many Gonzaga fans will emotionally overlook or they will settle for a quick glance at the box score and make their judgments and move on. It can't be emphasized enough how much we, as fans, will have to change our perceptions of how this team is built and last night's game showcased all of those changes.
I tried to write down a few things I noticed while re-watching the game and develop them into some broad themes to make this as readable as possible. Here are a few of these ideas, please don't hesitate to share what you saw and I really urge you to watch the game again on ESPN360.com
--- First, Demetri Goodson and GJ Vilarino will rarely have flashy and dominant stat lines this season. This is the first thing that I noticed after watching the game again this morning. In year's past, Mark Few has put the game in Jeremy Pargo's hands. Pargo was often the first one to penetrate into the defense in half court sets and that is why Gonzaga became such a good team for the "kick out" shot. This season, in half court sets, you will RARELY see our point guards drive past the three-point line. Honestly, once Meech and GJ pass the half court line they are already looking for Matt or Steven and those are the two that Coach Few wants this offense to run through and that makes sense. What this means is that Goodson and Vilarino will get their points in transition. Both are absolute speedsters that go along very well with the more slow and deliberate tempo of Matt and Steven. Through two games, it is very clear to see why Mark Few jumped at the opportunity to sign GJ. Not only is he a great fit with what he wants his point guard to be, but his poise in that first game was truly remarkable.
Both players will get a lot of heat after games I'm sure. Their will be games where they only combine for four or five assists, or one (which I think is a false stat) like last night. Especially in games like last night, against slow-tempo big ten teams, Matt Bouldin and Steven Gray will be responsible for facilitating the offense. This is why they combined for eight assists in comparison to Meech and GJ's one. It's going to drive you crazy when you look at the box scores...but keep that in mind.
--- The idea of big men that want to play in the post and battle is so refreshing. I don't want to take any unnecessary swipes on last year's big men for Gonzaga but the guys on this season's front line are tough as nails. They don't float the perimeter looking for threes, they don't take Tim Duncan mid-range turnarounds, they just back you down and challenge you to outwork them. I thought last night's interior play was the most sound play I've seen since JP Batista's senior season. The scary thing is that Rob is a sophomore and Elias and Kelly are freshmen. Michigan State isn't a bunch of slouches; they had some wide loads in the paint but once Sacre or Harris got the ball in the blocks, I had no doubt they were going to win the battle. Sure, the shots wouldn't fall all the time but more often than not, they put up good, high percentage shots. Here's a few more thoughts on the bigs last night
Elias Harris is as good on defense is as good as he is on offense. In the first ten minutes, Elias' defense was outstanding. He was aggressive and physical and you could tell that he was not at all scared of the name on the jersey. He had three tremendous steals and, for the most part, played smart defense. A few teams here and there he let his hands drop down and that drew fouls but overall, his defense was absolutely fantastic.
Rob Sacre is still young and learning. Rob picked up his first foul pretty quickly in the game and that was by far his worst play of the night. As Kalin Lucas (I think) drove to the hoop, Rob was attempting to close off to the hoop and just slid right into him as Lucas was looking to dribble by under the basket. It was an easy foul to call on Rob and his foul issues kind of snowballed from there. He'll learn to "make his fouls count" as he continues to get game experience. His inexperience also showed late in the game. He had a couple of nice opportunities in the paint with less than five minutes to go and missed on both attempts. It was pretty clear that he may have let the emotions get to him and rushed his shot but like I said, for his first real effort in that hostile of a crowd, there aren't many negatives about Rob's effort.
continue reading after the jump for a couple more thoughts...
--- (Over)Analyzing Matt and Steven's performance last night. If you were with us for our game thread last night, there was a lot of frustration in regards to the play of Gonzaga's two veteran guards. Re-watching the tape, there were definitely multiple instances where they each looked like freshmen in their own regards. At the same time, I think there are two things that shouldn't go unnoticed about Steven and Matt. First of all, aside from Meech, Steven played the best defense of the night. Accumulating three blocked shots and a beautiful steal on an attempted backcut, Steven flew around the court and he left me little doubt where his effort was. He's Gonzaga's best option against a lights out scorer because he understands how to follow his man around the court. Michigan State utilized some great perimeter screens but for the most part, Steven always got a hand in his man's face. I was thrilled with his effort after watching the game. The good thing that Matt did last night was that he was the point guard in half court sets. Before scoring his first points, Matt had already made beautiful assists to Rob, Will, Elias, and Kelly. His pass to Rob was a half-court strike right in between his numbers and his dish to Will was a great penetration move and dump off that made it easy for Will to take it right up with no delay.
I really hope watching this film makes Matt realize that he doesn't have to force shots. A couple times in transition and early in the shot clock he would take a three or penetrate the lane with no backside post that left him dead to rights. I've never really thought of Matt as being a "star" in college basketball and I think his greatest asset is making great passes to the post men and making big shots when the team needs him because he has to be the leader.
--- This is the rotation. After the Mississippi Valley State game, there were a lot of rumors and thoughts about the absence of Andy Poling and the few minutes of Manny Arop and Grant Gibbs. I think after last night, however, there is no doubt about where Mark Few wants to play his guys. Kelly Olynyk and Elias Harris will spell eachother all season long and I think they've both shown why Mark Few has great confidence in them. Harris for obvious reasons and Kelly just because he works his butt off on defense and has great basketball sense. The refs called at least two awful fouls on him and he'll learn to maybe hold it back a little bit on the road. If that game is at K2, Kelly would not have been in foul trouble. Elias and Kelly's arrival mean that Andy Poling is on the outside looking in. All summer long we heard about Andy's great redshirt year but it is just apparent that he might not be the complete player Mark Few envisioned. With four guys ahead of him in the big man rotation (Rob, Elias, Kelly, and Will), don't expect Andy to get more than five minutes a game all year unless it is garbage time.
Another guy that was noticeably absent was Grant Gibbs. Gibbs, who has been injury prone since arriving at GU, is fully healthy and impressed in his first game action against MVSU. Last night he didn't get off the bench and while that disappointed me, I'm not terribly surprised. In such a big early season game, Mark Few had to go with his veterans. Matt and Steven played 39 and 38 minutes, respectively and there was little time for Grant to come in considering he is their backup. The arrival of Manny Arop and GJ Vilarino also means that Grant is in a dogfight for minutes. It's clear that GJ is the guy backing up Meech and that Manny's overall ceiling is very high. This could be another case where a redshirt frosh struggles to get in the game. When Bol turns it all around, and I think it is only a matter of time, that is just another talented wing with loads of potential and instant offense.
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Comments
Competition
One of the best things about this team’s depth is the competition going on for playing time. The guards will be battling to try and get noticed. I think we’ll be seeing a lot of changes in rotations as guys out perform other guys on a week to week basis. This will only help keep practices intense and will only help our players develop. It will not only help this year, but in the years to come!
I can’t help but feel excited about this team. Fun, fun, fun to watch last night.
by zeeehjee on Nov 18, 2009 10:58 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
That was an incredible shot in the arm for Zag fans last night. The team came out aggressive, tough, and not willing to back down from anyone. Definitely bodes well for the rest of the season.
I was so impressed by a lot of guys, especially Harris.
Gray and Bouldin will get it going soon enough from deep. Too bad that first late 3 didn’t go down for Gray. So close!
Impressed!
Obviously the ending was a little disheartening, but I have to say that my expectations rose by a lot after last nights game. Before the game, I was thinking we would have a partial rebuilding year: win the WCC (in a close one) and maybe sneak into the sweet sixteen, but more likely win a first round game and bow out of the tourney. Now, I feel like we will be a really dangerous out come march… the kind of team no one likes to play. I like that a lot more than being an overhyped 4 seed. Being that tough 6-10 seed that will scratch and claw their way to a victory sounds pretty appealing to me!
Shaq as an undercover cop:
Shaq: yo man, can I score some dope?
Dealer: Motherf****r, you shaq.
Don't wish for a 6-10!!
If they go in the tourney as a 3-4 it is likely that they will play the first 2 rounds in the Spokane Arena which would give them a much better shot at making it to the second weekend (not to mention the fact that I would be there to see it :))
Disagree on KO
I’m sorry ZB, but good basketball sense is not what he has shown! Great hustle is! I think your letting the emotion of hustle interfere with fundementals. He constantly overplays on “d”, leaves his man in certain rotations that he shoudn’t and causes others to be out of place and end up fouling. He’s just running on emotion and not trusting the “D” scheme being taught yet. On “O”, he just hasn’t learned yet but either has Elias or GJ or Manny. They will learn, I have no doubt. It appears Coach Few is willing to forgo is weakness in the “D” for the hustle hoping he’ll learn and trust soon. I believe his hustle at practice is setting him apart from the others. It can’t be much other than that. 9 fouls, 6 points in 2 games from a “Big” playing 18 min a game? Manny, Grant, Andy and Will can do that given the minutes. Maybe a promise made to get him here, I don’t know? His “D” play though is MOST CERTAINLY not getting him the minutes. JMO
Disagreements are good!
I appreciate your thoughts and I know that you haven’t been impressed with Kelly in his first few appearances but I have to do something I rarely do and disagree with you. Watching Kelly play last night made me so excited about his future for a number of reasons. First off, he’s not shy. Like the other freshmen in this lineup, he relishes the shot to handle the ball, doesn’t hide from the offense, and plays with fire. I remember in the first half we missed a shot, followed it, nearly got the rebound and helped Gonzaga retain possession. Another time he forced a MSU turnover in the back court by not giving up on the play. He just works his butt off and that is what is setting him apart from the rest. He also forced a turnover in Michigan State’s halfcourt set by jumping a passing lane. Where I see Kelly’s biggest deficiency is just his overall lack of foot speed. He has trouble with help side defense because he is always one step slow but that will come once he learns how to be a true post guy. Remember, he was a point guard until last year.
I can’t guess at why Andy isn’t playing but I can see why Kelly is. With these freshmen, the most important part is that they show effort and show they can play in big games. Kelly actually made some big buckets last night at some key times in the game. Were they pretty? Far from it but he made them count.
I just can’t help but be extremely disappointed in Andy. When we interviewed Coach Rice and Giacoletti, they raved about his summer and how he worked out but to have KO and Will well in front of him in the rotation strikes me as odd. I guess he isn’t able to put it all together in game situations. I honestly thought he’d challenge Elias for that starting four spot but obviously that isn’t going to happen while he’s here.
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Maybe not difference of opinion but choice of words and what they mean to each of us!
Referring to the good “basketball sense”. That was all I was addressing. Not his hard work or heart or willingnes. Are his “Fundementals” better than, Andy’s, Grants or Manny’s? IMO, clearly NO. It’s not just slow of foot either. It’s anticipating and recognizing the situation then making the proper adjustments and decisions, “basketball sense”. Time and trust in the system(GU’s), will bring him around I believe. I guess in a long winded way, watching him perform only in the games and not at practice leads me to my conclusions. Hence, why I suggested only that he’s out hustling them in practice or submit your own theory as to why he’s playing 19 minutes with so many mistakes?
I love the guy, I’m just evaluating his play and it’s effects during the game on others. It will come around but to me right now……..he’s causing TO’s and fouls to be committed by others because of his play. Others on the team do that also but to me it’s really apparent in his game right now. Finally, I really try not to throw in personal feelings of like or dislike of a particular player that i’m commenting on and hope that nothing appears to be a personal attack but rather a hoop thought. Hey, I’m sold on every one of these kids and this staff. I’m so proud of their play last night.
by mikesequim on Nov 18, 2009 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Love it
Never thought anything you said had any leaning toward a personal attack and I do understand where you are coming from 100%. I’m glad we both agree that his future is bright. I kind of have to pinch myself with Kelly because he has grown so much in the past couple years that he is playing a pretty foreign position. Rotations, post defense, and overall toughness are things that will have to continue to grow over time. Hopefully the staff can continue to develop him because his potential seems to be off the charts.
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Agree with you on KO
He looks like a Freshman and makes all kinds of Freshman mistakes. I think a lot of this has to do with his lack of familiarity/experience with defensive schemes/rotations.
mjc
Which begs the question
Why isn’t Andy, who presumably has "familiarity/experience with the (GU) defensive schemes/rotations, playing?
Poling
The more I think about it, the more I just can’t understand why Andy wouldn’t be playing besides the fact that the skill level and desire just isn’t there. I understand he had the gluten allergy but that has been taken care of while at Gonzaga. He had an entire redshirt year to practice, learn the offense, and get excited for 2009-10 and for his minute column in the boxscore to read 0+ is nearly comical.
Like you said, the familiarity and experience really should be there. I know for a fact that when Will Foster came to Gonzaga he was a project but with Andy came a plethora of accolades in high school, albeit short lived. I know he is only a redshirt freshman but when you look at Rob, Elias, Kelly, and next year Sam being on the front line, I don’t see Andy getting minutes.
It’s a mystery. Hopefully someone asks the question because all summer we’ve been hearing how stellar he has looked.
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Poling???
I cannot for the life of me understand what’s going on with Poling.
Frankly ’MUM’s the word’ when you ask about him. I’m starting to wonder if there’ not more to this than it appears. Perhaps he has something health related going on???
I don’t think Poling is that far behind KO or Foster.
I can see Foster getting the nod this year. He’s a Senior and has put in 3 years to get a chance to play. Plus he actually didn’t look all that bad against MSU — looked pretty good at times. He may surprise us all before the end of the season.
KO ??? I can appreciate the potential that’s there but he isn’t even close to where he will be playing in years to come.
mjc
QV
I’m going to bring this up one more time because it must be relevent.
I’ve watched Andy since HS. His best year was his Soph. His sickness really came on between then and his Junior year. I talked with his Dad on different occasions at Andy’s games when I could to ask how he was feeling. They were really nervous. At first nobody could figure it out. Then he lost……….I’m going to guess, 35 lbs.! What he lost most was his endurance and strength and in his Senior year, to me, he still was really weak. I read updates when I could find them about him. I bet if you can get access to this past year you will find he was sick alot. By sick I mean tummy sick all the time. Not being able to keep certain foods down. I could go on but I won’t!
I will just say, IMO, he’s still not healthy and that is keeping him back because of all the things that go with the sickness. The Andy I saw in HS has tons of talent and outside of Elias, was the best young talent (healthy) we have. What I liked most important were his GREAT fundementals. When I watch the youngsters playing ahead of that talent that I saw, to me it must be the illness. I guess we’ll eventually find out. I wish him well.
If Gray plays every game like he did last night ...
… he’ll be our best player.
Steven can be better
Steven needs to concentrate on consistently using the same motion for his shot. Early in the game he was often leaning back and his shots were short. Later he straightened up but was over compensating and his shots went long off the back rim.
I have little doubt he can score in bunches no matter how he shoots it but I think he can improve his percentages if he takes a page from Curry and consistently uses the same form/motion on his shot.
mjc
I agree leone
His first half was one of the better stints of basketball I’ve ever seen from him. Defense, hustle, attacking the basket; it was all there. I’m pretty confident the shots will fall. I just hope he keeps attacking. Liked what I saw.
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Gray & Bouldin
I think Gray played great defense. If I’m not mistaken, I think he had Kalin Lucas for a lot of the game and did a great job there. Bouldin seemed to get lit up by Summers in the second half. I don’t know that he could have done anything different, but what he was doing wasn’t working.
KO and co
I disagree with all the comments on Kelly Olynyk. He’s not necessarily a shot blocker, but I thought his quickness and tough defense, despite his skinny frame, was pretty good. He actually tried to score a couple times, and he did. Also, he had his fair share of tips, and hustle plays that don’t show up in the box score. He was everywhere diving and getting a hand on everything. I love him, and think he is pretty important, along with Foster, to our success. If our bigs will learn to stay out of trouble, and we shoot a little better percentage, we’ll be a top 15 team come March.
Why KO over Poling.
Not having watched Poling at Alberta, I can only make a judgement based on what little I have seen of him and read about him and it is not much. There is one thing I know for sure, though. From what I’ve seen of KO, I immediately got the reason he is playing and maybe some others are not and that quality I noticed is old-fashoined hustle and grit. If I’m Mark Few, I’m playing the guy who wants it the most, the guy who shows some bull-doggish bite-down-and-don’t-let-go guts, and you know, sometimes guts is enough.
Tom117
by Tom117 on Nov 18, 2009 6:17 PM PST reply actions 1 recs

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